General Discussion A Funny Sign

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This breaks all the rules of writing fiction: a hero that is not transformed.
He is already a super good man - he does not need to Synthesize in Act 3.

The story was interesting for the action, the plotting, the ruin of bad guys, but the hero did not change.
He was the Count without the money - without the wife and son, without the awe of his peers.

He was 2nd in command of a ship. He impressed Napoleon. He earned his captaincy. He triumphed with his love over his foe. He impressed the pirate captain and crewmates.
Even if Edmond had never become Count. He proved his faith over the jailor, his honesty over the judge, his loyalty over his best friend, his worth to his employer. Edmond did not change. Everything else changed around him.

To fit the rules, the hero must learn from his true Need that his Want will only corrupt him or last a short time.
Edmond was righteous. He had no bigger true Need. He had some Wants to see justice done - but his innocent faith was so large, he did not need to take matters into his own hands.
 
as usual, you are doubling down on your argument and refusing to allow those of us who disagree with you to do so in peace, @C.W. Pettit

I not only gave you a few of the verses for why I believe as I believe, I also gave you a list of resources and told you that I have studied this issue in depth and have come to the side of once saved always saved.

I do not try to convince you to change your mind; I only offered up the counter viewpoint as this is far from being as settled as you insist that it is.

Frankly, I take much comfort in knowing that just as my salvation is secure in Christ from the beginning, so it will be in the end. As I could do nothing to save myself and with my sin nature still present until death or glorification at the return of Christ, I cannot abstain one hour, let alone the rest of my life from sinning. It is a very comforting, joyous hope and thought to know that my sin does not endanger me from separation from my Heavenly Father.

After all, you have said you are a father - would you cast your daughter out when she sins? Even if she gets to her teenage years and rebels against you and all you raised her to be, will you say you have no daughter and throw her out of your life? If you, as a sinful human being, says no, you love your daughter and no matter what she does, she will be your daughter, how much more will our perfect and righteous Heavenly Father do the same for the children He has adopted into His household? Because we are no more servants, we are children and have the right to call Him Abba, Father.


But as I stated before: you have your conviction, I have mine. I do not question your salvation; I only disagree with you on doctrinal points. I do not try to convince you or argue with you that you are wrong; I post what I do because I am secure in my understanding of this issue, I stand firmly on once saved always saved, and I wisheto present the counter defense to your arguments to widen the understanding of all who read this and perhaps spark a deeper study of the Word in them for their Spiritual benefit.

I would count it courteous, then, if you would abstain from continuing to argue with me and tell me I am wrong in my views and accept that there are those who disagree with your viewpoint. IT is one thing to state your views for why you believe what you believe; you cross a line, however, when you begin to attack others who disagree, especially on an issue that is not nearly as clear cut as you wish to believe it be.

Finally, in reference to Hebrews 10:26, even if that IS saying we could lose our salvation (which is not so clear as you want it to be as the whole thing is states as an IF statement, not a FACT statement), that verse would also say that this means that if you lose your salvation, you will never regain it - so mess up just one time and you are out the door forever. Yet many that I know who do believe one can lose their salvation also hold to the belief that they can repent and regain it, be re-baptized and brought back into fellowship.


Matthew 7:
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Romans 7:14-25 is very much my comfort in this matter, as it ends with this:
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8
15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship.[f] And by him we cry, “Abba,[g] Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Galatians 4
Now I say, as long as the heir is a [a]child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is [b]owner of everything, 2 but he is under guardians and [c]managers until the date set by the father. 3 So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the [d]elemental things of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under [e]the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under [f]the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir [g]through God.
 
Finally, in reference to Hebrews 10:26, even if that IS saying we could lose our salvation (which is not so clear as you want it to be as the whole thing is states as an IF statement, not a FACT statement), that verse would also say that this means that if you lose your salvation, you will never regain it - so mess up just one time and you are out the door forever. Yet many that I know who do believe one can lose their salvation also hold to the belief that they can repent and regain it, be re-baptized and brought back into fellowship.

Thank you for your faith. Hebrews 10 is a hard passage for sure. I take it to mean that if you will not allow God to transform you then there's no other cure.
 
I don't feel I double-downed it. I added even less Scripture than you did. I have written sparingly. I am not thrusting my point.

I am sharing my understanding.
 
There are YouTube videos where parents who are police officers have to arrest their own children.

There are other videos of parents breaking the kid's prized possession: a game system - and the child cries and comes undone.

Jordan Peterson interview - Some one said, "you don't acknowledge my pronouns. You are my enemy."
Jordan responding like a father: "I do not acknowledge your pronouns because I know it is not good for you - to enable your delusion."
 
and yet in none of those examples did those parents throw their children out of their house, took away their names, and said "You are no longer my child."

In all cases it broke their hearts to be forced to discipline their children, as it does God's heart to discipline His, but they are still beloved children and, as Jordan Peterson said, they did it because they loved their children and knows that enabling their sin will lead to their destruction.

My belief in eternal security rests on the fact that salvation is entirely of God, not of man. I can neither save myself nor keep myself saved. Just as my righteousness before God was as filthy rags before salvation, so it is afterwards as well, but since I had no part in my salvation and could only humbly accept the gift offered to me by the One who paid for every sin I'd ever committed, I can stand in hope that truly nothing can separate me from God, including my own stupidity. Besides which, I am a new creature in Christ - old things are passed away. I was dead and now alive, and God promises that it is eternal life.

You have tossed Scripture and continue coming back to try to convince me to see the light according to your viewpoint in numerous posts one right after another; how is that not doubling down?

As it is, since the last word seems to be what you crave, I shall let you have it. Good night, and may God bless you.
 
One thing I think will help to remember, @C.W. Pettit , and I mean this with all respect, is that we are not of your flock, and just because we're here, doesn't mean we're here to be preached to. As long as you keep that in mind, we'll get along just fine.

We are writers here, Christian Writers. We respect other people's right to their own opinions. We're here to help each other with our writing and to support each other. Why don't you consider submitting something to the Critique Forum and join the fun! :)
 
I've stayed out of this mainly because I do not like debate. It's just not in me. However, I am a moderator. So I've also stayed out because I wanted to see what others had to say. And I like what they're saying.

As SW said, we are a WRITERS community. We are like family. We desire to uplift and encourage others in their writing journey. This section of the site enables us to communicate on topics that concern us, though we try to restrain from topics that lead to debate or even arguments. So, with that said, I totally agree with SW. (And thank you!)

Hopefully, @C.W. Pettit you have some writing you'd like to share with us. ::D
 
One thing I think will help to remember, @C.W. Pettit , and I mean this with all respect, is that we are not of your flock, and just because we're here, doesn't mean we're here to be preached to. As long as you keep that in mind, we'll get along just fine.

We are writers here, Christian Writers. We respect other people's right to their own opinions. We're here to help each other with our writing and to support each other. Why don't you consider submitting something to the Critique Forum and join the fun! :)
I very much agree with this post. @C.W. Pettit while I believe you mean well, ChristianWriters.com is not the appropriate site to debate theology. We've explained this before and it's even included in our rules section under divisive topics. Please take these type of discussions to a different site.

Closing this topic because I believe it's run its course.
 
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