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On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2021 at 8:05 PM, Teddy said:

I am strongly convinced the Bible will soon reveal to us "how to split an atom, or cure cancer."

 

We already do that.

 

And, I might add, the doorway to more fantastic things is already written in the Bible.  Its called "Faith."  But it is not "scientific," and relies on God to accomplish these things.

 

 

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I think we have a schism in definition of terms. I agree the Bible has a Scientific nature. I don't think it's explicitly a Scientific document. It's clearly a historical and theological document whic

This is not Christianity. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Science is not. It is a tool for us to examine the created world and understand its functions better. If I understan

Hey all,   Can we establish/reestablish some things?   1. Everyone on here at least agrees that whether or not the Bible is a scientific document, it does display scientific truths

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5 minutes ago, Jeff Potts said:

 

We already do that.

 

And, I might add, the doorway to more fantastic things is already written in the Bible.  Its called "Faith."  But it is not "scientific," and relies on God to accomplish these things.

 

 

Yes, we do.

But before the 1900's, before when humanity started to understand the makeup of the atom and the great energy tied in it, did any anyone understood that concept of atomic structure and atomic energy, in all its scientific dimensions? 

 

Can someone stand before a group of physicists and show to them that atomic concepts, formulas, and principles are already in the Bible? 

 

This is not about faith.

It is about going foot-to-foot with the scientists on their own terms, meeting them on their own empirical and conceptual grounds.  

 

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On 3/28/2021 at 12:23 PM, pale said:

I just came across this platform last night and in process of getting my book series together explaining the Scientific nature of the Bible.  So I have a few questions.

 

Are there any authors here who believe that the Bible is a scientific document? 


I think we have a schism in definition of terms. I agree the Bible has a Scientific nature. I don't think it's explicitly a Scientific document. It's clearly a historical and theological document which makes certain scientific truth claims. I don't really need it to be more than what it already is, a story about Jesus Christ and the need for Mankind to believe in the Son of God for salvation.

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48 minutes ago, Johne said:


I think we have a schism in definition of terms. I agree the Bible has a Scientific nature. I don't think it's explicitly a Scientific document. It's clearly a historical and theological document which makes certain scientific truth claims. I don't really need it to be more than what it already is, a story about Jesus Christ and the need for Mankind to believe in the Son of God for salvation.

 

Your are correct John. At the first level of encounter, "yes" the Bible is all of the following: a historical document, a source of wisdom for everyday living, and primarily a theological book how to get salvation.

 

However, the Bible is the virtual mind of God. The Bible is God's mind, expressed in words and its infinite wisdom and knowledge veiled behind stories and sayings.

 

But the Bible, as the mind of God, has many layers which require some digging and revelation to disclose its full and true contents. One of the layers of the Bible (yet to be disclosed) is its scientific content.

 

All the marvels of the sciences contained in the Bible, they will be unearthed and shown to the scientific community eventually. For every discovery modern science has made -- concepts, principles, and formulas -- will be demonstrated out of the Bible. 

 

God is the ultimate scientist; He created the universe using laws and principles which scientists have been discovering and duplicating ever since. Only the mind of God has been capable of hiding the intricacies of modern maths/ physics/ chemistry/ biology in seemingly mundane looking stories and sayings. 

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13 minutes ago, Teddy said:

But the Bible, as the mind of God, has many layers which require some digging and revelation to disclose its full and true contents. One of the layers of the Bible (yet to be disclosed) is its scientific content.

 

All the marvels of the sciences contained in the Bible, they will be unearthed and shown to the scientific community eventually. For every discovery modern science has made -- concepts, principles, and formulas -- will be demonstrated out of the Bible. 

 

God is the ultimate scientist; He created the universe using laws and principles which scientists have been discovering and duplicating ever since. Only the mind of God has been capable of hiding the intricacies of modern maths/ physics/ chemistry/ biology in seemingly mundane looking stories and sayings. 

 

I don't think of God as the ultimate scientist.  I just think of him as God.

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21 minutes ago, Teddy said:

For every discovery modern science has made -- concepts, principles, and formulas -- will be demonstrated out of the Bible. 


Science is "...the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence." I see a deep sympathy between this pursuit in the physical world (Science) and the metaphysical world (Theology). I don't particularly need the Bible to be the ultimate word on both, although it is nice to see hints of that ("For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.").

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2 hours ago, Teddy said:

Yes, we do.

But before the 1900's, before when humanity started to understand the makeup of the atom and the great energy tied in it, did any anyone understood that concept of atomic structure and atomic energy, in all its scientific dimensions? 

 

Can someone stand before a group of physicists and show to them that atomic concepts, formulas, and principles are already in the Bible? 

 

This is not about faith.

It is about going foot-to-foot with the scientists on their own terms, meeting them on their own empirical and conceptual grounds.  

 

 

First, this doesn't even make any sense.

 

Second, if you will, point to me in the Bible where the process for doping silicon substrates to create semiconductors can be found.  Because I'd like to read that passage.

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On 4/2/2021 at 2:07 PM, Jeff Potts said:

 

First, this doesn't even make any sense.

What? That God has atom-related science put in the Bible thousands years before any scientist (well before Dalton, Bohrs, and Einstein) start to unravel the mystery of the atom? The problem of disclosing such knowledge from the Bible will be esoteric or 'too much reading' into an ancient text. 

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Second, if you will, point to me in the Bible where the process for doping silicon substrates to create semiconductors can be found.  Because I'd like to read that passage.

I admire this question. It is this kind question my kind must answer -- using the Bible -- to convince the scientific community. 

My answer is, "Not yet." 

 

I am still as some one who darkly see through the mirror. I have seen only the glimpses of His Wisdom. 

"And these are but the outer fringe of his works; how faint the whisper we hear of him! Who then can understand the thunder of his power?" (Job 26:14)

 

Remember, in my comment I have said, "eventually." 

Ultimately all the books of Babylon will be hauled away to be replaced by a one volume, some 700-pages Bible. 

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   For me it's all very simple.  There is the Theory of Intelligent Design, which is based on the observable fact that everything in the Universe is intelligently designed.  This leads to the question:  How can there be an intelligent design without an Intelligent Designer?

   The Intelligent Designer, Whose Name is God.  The Big Invisible Guy in the sky, Who is my  Close, Familiar Friend, as Job called Him; and to Whom I am continually in prayer.     

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1 hour ago, Teddy said:

Who can tolerate the (re) interpretation of the familiar David v. Goliath  (Israel v. Philistines) confrontation in philosophic/ world view clash?


Well, again, that goes more to History.

 

1 hour ago, Teddy said:

I admire this question. It is this kind question my kind must answer -- using the Bible -- to convince the scientific community. 

My answer is, "Not yet."


I'm curious why it so important to you that the scriptures fill this need. Unless these revelations are bringing people to Jesus, they're curiosities more than anything (to me). 

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1 hour ago, Johne said:


Well, again, that goes more to History.

 


I'm curious why it so important to you that the scriptures fill this need. Unless these revelations are bringing people to Jesus, they're curiosities more than anything (to me). 

I have already said: "and primarily a theological book how to get salvation." 

 

However, many do not like to come to salvation because they 'worship' and denigrate the Bible. Many scientists would say "why should I believe in a book full of fairy tales, a book which contradicts science?" Even for many others the Bible is just a book of faith and ethics. 


So what is the use of the philosophical and the scientific interpretation of the Bible? It is to demonstrate to the whole world that the God of the Bible is the True God, a God of all wisdom and knowledge. It is to humble all -- in terms of power, authority, knowledge, and wisdom. It is to lift up the Bible even among the scientific and academic community. 

 

 "O, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and untraceable His ways!" (Rom. 11:33) 

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7 hours ago, Teddy said:

I admire this question. It is this kind question my kind must answer -- using the Bible -- to convince the scientific community. 

My answer is, "Not yet." 

 

I am still as some one who darkly see through the mirror. I have seen only the glimpses of His Wisdom. 

"And these are but the outer fringe of his works; how faint the whisper we hear of him! Who then can understand the thunder of his power?" (Job 26:14)

 

Remember, in my comment I have said, "eventually." 

Ultimately all the books of Babylon will be hauled away to be replaced by a one volume, some 700-pages Bible. 

 

So, I'm going to take it that you don't know where that section is?

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Thank you All for the conversation. Sorry for not responding to all of you as I have to work.  But I had to search for my answers. God is real and science is here to provide the evidence.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, pale said:

God is real and science is here to provide the evidence.

Well put, @pale, I usually word it along these lines:

 

Since God is real and his testimony is true, science, history, and every branch of learning will always affirm his claims.

 

Has the church been majorly wrong on verifiable evidence? Oh, yes, but only when they get pulled away by secular assumptions and apply these interpretations to the Bible.

 

Two examples of this: The belief that the solar system had to be "perfect" since God made it "very good" and therefore church leaders resisted the discoveries of Galileo with his telescope. Ditto for the notion of "fixity of species" and that God had promised to preserve every species forever. This left the door wide open for people to reject both the church and God as the fossils began to be uncovered.

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6 hours ago, pale said:

Thank you All for the conversation. Sorry for not responding to all of you as I have to work.  But I had to search for my answers. God is real and science is here to provide the evidence.

 

 

 

 

Hey all,

 

Can we establish/reestablish some things?

 

1. Everyone on here at least agrees that whether or not the Bible is a scientific document, it does display scientific truths "ahead" of it's time. 

2. If I am following correctly, the issue is whether or not the Bible is a scientific document specifically. 

3. Based on your last point, pale, it seems that you believe that the purpose of science is to prove God's existence. I don't wish to misrepresent. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

4. You also mention that "faith alone" doesn't seem to be enough for you to accept certain claims made by the Bible etc.

 

To address #2,  I am not a scientist, but my limited understanding is that a scientific document is a compilation of facts to determine cause/outcome or attempt provide answers for "what?" and "why?".

 

So, what is science then? According to Webster it is: "knowledge attained through study or practice. Knowledge covering general truths of the operation of general laws, esp. as obtained and tested through scientific method concerned with the physical world."

 

Enlightenment thinkers had a name for laws that govern the operation of the physical world-natural law. As such, there had to be a law giver-God, sometimes referred to as "Providence". 

 

So, can we learn about the physical world via studying the Bible? To avoid redundancy, yes, but in a limited sense. It comes down to the Word's purpose.

 

14 hours ago, Teddy said:

I have already said: "and primarily a theological book how to get salvation." 

Not primarily--it is this. The Bible's purpose is to show God for who He is, mankind for what we are, and how the breech between us was/can be healed. Again, I don't wish to misrepresent. Please clarify if needed. 

 

The Bible tells us cause/outcome of sin-the "what/why" of man's condition, certainly, but we can't reduce it to a science textbook anymore than a simple historical document. If there's one thing we see over and over again, it's that God was more concerned about the soul, the inner-man, more than the "cup". 

 

 

Which leads to #3-"God is real and science is here to provide the evidence". Speaking of the Enlightenment, several scientists of that era believed exactly this, and I tend to agree myself. It is a worthy endeavor I believe God encourages.

24 minutes ago, Celebrianne said:

Since God is real and his testimony is true, science, history, and every branch of learning will always affirm his claims.

 

 

But, as Celebrianne has also mentioned, scientists have been wrong before. We come as fallen people to a once perfect world disrupted and polluted by sin. Things don't always work as they should, death was never meant to be a reality here, and everything is winding down to destruction. 

 

Descartes once believed that everything could be, and must be, put through the rigorous testing ground of the mind in order to be proven true-but man's mind is fallen.

 

We can't use the scientific method to test everything, especially historical science. 

 

Miracles especially, where God breaks physical laws, cannot be explained by science. 

 

Somethings are relegated far outside man's domain, and we can't hope to understand everything about the divine anymore than an ant could comprehend the complexities of what it means to be human.

Some things must be accepted by faith alone, but...

 

#4. There is a difference between true faith, and "blind" faith. Blind faith says "jump and hope there is a ledge to catch you"-also defined as stupidity. 

True faith has reason to stand on; maybe you can't see the ledge, but there is a friend below telling you it is there and where to jump. 

There is abounding scientific, historical, social, etc evidence that God is real, the Bible is true, and man is fallen. Maybe we can't test everything. Maybe we won't always understand it. We can try, but when if we fail, we know that God is true and we can trust Him.

 

By the way, God never punished doubt, only unbelief through doubt.

 

My two cents.

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11 hours ago, Jeff Potts said:

 

So, I'm going to take it that you don't know where that section is?

My first posting on the subject has said: " I am strongly convinced the Bible will soon reveal to us "how to split an atom, or cure cancer." In my study of the Bible (which has been going on for several years), I have started to see evidences of scientific knowledge throbbing behind the "fairly tales"."

 

My point has been that (i) from the evidence I have started to see the Bible contains scientific knowledge, (ii) I (and probably others too) have started to see the "outskirts" of His science knowledge and wisdom, and (iii) gradually the whole scientific knowledge contained in the Bible would come into full light.

 

But then the question would be, would the world appreciate the way the Bible expresses its scientific knowledge? Would the scientific community accept science as expressed in an unusual mode of expression? 

 

As I have said behind the stories of family feuds, wars, miracles, and the sayings and prayers hides deeper wisdom, some of it which is equivalent to modern science and technology. As St. Paul has said God's wisdom (i.e., Word) is kaleidoscopic. It can read at many levels. 

 

"so that now through the church the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the places of high positions" (Eph. 3:10)

 

To illustrate this point, soon I will post a blog. The blog will be an excerpt from a larger project I am working on currently on the same matter. I will be sharing just one illustrative example to show by what I mean about seeing (or extracting) modern science/ technology in  the Bible. The blog will exclude the introductory section of a much larger worker and just focus on one example where God speaks modern-day science. 

 

Once this audience has read the example, then I request that they come here and start to discuss the mode of interpretation I followed.   

 

 

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Thank you All for the conversation. Sorry for not responding to all of you as I have to work.  But I had to search for my answers. God is real and science is here to provide the evidence. It's how it was set up from the beginning. This was the message with Eve. 

 

Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it transforms to other forms. E=mc2. This is the scientific version of the message Jesus sent about the crucifixion. There is another world where human life (energy) is transformed to. It doesn't end here. 

Happy Easter and stay blessed..

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Teddy said:

My first posting on the subject has said: " I am strongly convinced the Bible will soon reveal to us "how to split an atom, or cure cancer." In my study of the Bible (which has been going on for several years), I have started to see evidences of scientific knowledge throbbing behind the "fairly tales"."

 

My point has been that (i) from the evidence I have started to see the Bible contains scientific knowledge, (ii) I (and probably others too) have started to see the "outskirts" of His science knowledge and wisdom, and (iii) gradually the whole scientific knowledge contained in the Bible would come into full light.

 

But then the question would be, would the world appreciate the way the Bible expresses its scientific knowledge? Would the scientific community accept science as expressed in an unusual mode of expression? 

 

As I have said behind the stories of family feuds, wars, miracles, and the sayings and prayers hides deeper wisdom, some of it which is equivalent to modern science and technology. As St. Paul has said God's wisdom (i.e., Word) is kaleidoscopic. It can read at many levels. 

 

"so that now through the church the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the places of high positions" (Eph. 3:10)

 

To illustrate this point, soon I will post a blog. The blog will be an excerpt from a larger project I am working on currently on the same matter. I will be sharing just one illustrative example to show by what I mean about seeing (or extracting) modern science/ technology in  the Bible. The blog will exclude the introductory section of a much larger worker and just focus on one example where God speaks modern-day science. 

 

Once this audience has read the example, then I request that they come here and start to discuss the mode of interpretation I followed.   

 

 

I know where that section is thou 😂

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17 hours ago, Jeff Potts said:

 

So, I'm going to take it that you don't know where that section is?

 

I just posted the blog: "God & Science (Part II)".

 

You can find it here:

https://christianwriters.com/blogs/

 

The blog, as I said, contains an illustrative excerpt from a larger project to prove the point I have been trying to make here. 

 

The excerpt is taken from the 'middle section' of a larger project, and hence it does not include the preceding sections where I laid down the groundwork for my interpretative scheme.

 

My example is just one SIMPLE example of what the Bible contains in terms of science and technology. I strongly believe that deeper (more sophisticated) scientific knowledge/ wisdom awaits us to mine.    

 

Please read and comment. God bless.

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