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lynnmosher

Have you seen this punctuation suggestion?

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The comma splices are, unfortunately, common comma errors.

 

The ellipses can be confusing. Ellipses for words left out includes words trailing off, because words are then left out.

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What is weird to me is how it threw off the formatting. However, I didn't see the question mark that's mentioned...

 

No matter which style guide you trust, an em dash preceding a quotation mark could result in a line break that looks like this:

“I never said I’d eat the—

Note the quotation mark on a line of its own.

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I use ellipses and stick pretty closer to 'said' in all cases. As the author herself said, "However, ellipses should signal omitted words, pauses in action, or unfinished sentences." and that's exactly how I use them.

This is how I'd re-write this (clunky) scene:

Quote

 

Allan crawled toward the exit. “The smoke is too thick, Carol. I don’t think…”

“Shhh,” she said. “They’ll hear us.”

“But I think…”

“Pipe down.”

“You pipe down! You’re always the…”

She slapped Alan. “How dare you…”

“How dare I?” he yelled. “I’m not the one who…”

An explosion shook the room.

 

 

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I think I should have reworded my thread title. I think it ended up being misleading.

 

I thought it strange that Word counted the separated ellipsis as two words:

 

I scowl … and shake my head. [7 words]

I scowl . . . and shake my head. [9 words]

 

Which source do you follow, Associated or Chicago?

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Nod - that was weird. I don't put spaces between ellipses.

In the examples she gave I leaned closer to AP than CMOS for spaces around em-dashes but closer to CMOS than AP for no spaces around ellipses. It's just what I'm used to. I could probably be argued off of either.

I don't like em dashes in the place of ellipses. Call it a personal preference (and even she said ellipses signal unfinished sentences). 

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Just to further muddy the water...
https://writing.stackexchange.com/questions/1231/what-is-the-preferred-way-to-type-out-ellipses

Quote

 

AP Style says to treat an ellipse as one word by using 3 periods (dots) with a space on each side.

Quote

This sentence ... with an ellipsis.

This is for journalism and based on what looks proper in that medium. Without any spaces, an ellipsis is considered "one word" by many computer systems and therefore will not be split up properly at the end of a line. The space before and after ensures that there isn't a huge word wrap if both words and the ellipsis were all treated as a single word and dropped together to the next line. No spaces in between the periods ensures that the ellipsis won't get word wrapped in the middle of the punctuation.

The Chicago Manual of style says to use three spaced periods. This is based on punctuational accuracy and would be considered the "real" way to use an ellipsis in a grammar bar fight (if there were such a thing.)

Quote

This sentence . . . with an ellipsis.

The most important thing, is that virtually everyone in publishing says do NOT use the special "ellipsis character." Microsoft Word uses it to "auto-correct" your work by default. (While we are at it, you should also not use smart quotes either.)

It's all an interesting theoretical discussion, but in the real world of fiction publishing, here is how it breaks down.

  1. Your unsolicited manuscript can use ellipsis with or without spaces and it will not matter to the agent or publisher you send it to.
  2. Once you are actually working with the publisher, they will give you very specific formatting guidelines for how they want your submissions to be done for everything you send to them. These guidelines will encompass much more than just how to type ellipsis, and they will be the only rules that matter when submitting to that particular publisher.

You can look up the manuscript format submission guidelines for individual publishers, but you will find that most of them don't say anything about ellipsis. That isn't an omission; they don't care.

As far as how an ellipsis comes out when printed in hard copy, that is entirely dictated by the font and typeset used by the printing company, so it doesn't help to look in published books for examples of how to type it into the computer (or on the typewriter :)

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Johne said:

I don't like em dashes in the place of ellipses. Call it a personal preference

 

Yeah, I'm with you, Johne. And I don't put spaces in ellipses either. So I agree with your other thought as well.

 

I tried the word count and I came up with the came 7 and 9. So I don't understand why Word counts spaces as words. Characters, yes. But not words. If someone used ellipses often in dialog, then there goes your word count. Very weird.

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I did a test just now - the way I write gives no extra words.

This is a test . . . =  seven words

This is a test ... = five words

This is a test... = four words

 

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Grammarly won't let me use ellipses with space, but won't line break for a punctuation mark alone, either. I haven't tested it in yWriter yet.

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32 minutes ago, EClayRowe said:

Grammarly won't let me use ellipses with space, but won't line break for a punctuation mark alone, either.


...and this is why I uninstalled Grammarly. ;)

 

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3 minutes ago, Johne said:


...and this is why I uninstalled Grammarly. ;)

 

Halfway there, brother. But she tells me I use more unique words than 95% of Grammarly users!

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Just now, EClayRowe said:

Halfway there, brother. But she tells me I use more unique words than 95% of Grammarly users!


So she makes you feel worse before she makes you feel better?  ;)

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Posted (edited)

"Maybe you could eat a salad?"

 

Muffins! She uses real Maine blueberries.

 

She wants me to remove the article before "salad." It's a quote!

 

 

Edited by EClayRowe

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29 minutes ago, EClayRowe said:

She wants me to remove the article before "salad." It's a quote!


That's why I turned it off - I realized my native sense of grammar was good enough to catch the lion's share of stuff while I'm writing and then do a sanity run through ProWritingAid before I publish.

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