General Discussion Stop the Retreat From the Battlefield of the Culture War

[M. D. Boncher]

@M. D. Boncher, I’m more than a little late to this party, but I thought I’d throw in my two cents anyway…

Sometimes, in those really tough environments, the best thing you can possibly do is be there. Show up with intention (and lots of prayer) and see who God brings into your path.

As a fellow “ extremophile” I salute your courage and have no doubt that God will use your obedience.

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That's precisely what we're starting to realize. If there is no other example of life in these places, and nothing that seems different from the lost and perverse, it will be assumed this is normal. We've been very happy with a discussion at our church with our pastor on some ideas for how the church itself can start engaging again, but aimed more towards the youth. Of course, realize there are churches around here with literally under 10 members left because of the attrition of age and Covid, but also very few are even growing anymore from any source outside of "refugees" from other churches. But they want to engage the youth, and that makes me very glad.

We'll have to see where this goes and how it grows.

 

[Whendancer64]

I had a youth pastor describe it to me as to "do life with them, " don't become like them but do life with them. For me, it's a coworker who became a friend who is a Native woman who completely adopts the current secular ideology. She knows I'm a Christian and a Conservative, and she hates that this is my ideology, but we've been friends for five years, we've been through the wringer at work together and even though we've fought hard yet we've maintained being friends. I've had the opportunity to show love, friendship, and forgiveness and even my faults and apologize and try to make it right. I keep reaching out to her about God and I know part of her wants to give in and see.

To answer the question I think you have to be who you are as a Christian, faults and all, and invest in the lives of those around you. You invest what God has given you, love, kindness, joy, forgiveness, and truth. You also can't try to cover up where you fail, you have to let them see you try to make it right. Christians have a reputation for being fake, we can't be fake around the non-Christians because they see right through it. We also can't just act like them and pretend that our own sin is ok. I think we have to build relationships with the lost in order to earn their trust. How can they trust what we are saying if we haven't earned their trust? Obviously, there are many situations and times where you can tell a stranger about God and the message will be accepted, but I think God puts us in long-term places to reach the lost as well.

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AMEN! Years ago, a coworker was giving me rides home in her car. One night, she shared with me that she suffered with Lupus. I asked her if she would feel comfortable if I prayed for her. She said yes. Not long after that, she came to the office busting with happiness! She took me to her office, closed the door, looked me in the eye and said: "Okay, please tell me about this "prayer" thing!" The Lord had did a miracle regarding her disease and she wanted to know how prayer works! To GOD goes ALL the glory! When we let our Christian lights shine-others will be asking us about Jesus. Amen? Lift Him up and He will draw them!

 

[M. D. Boncher]

AMEN! Years ago, a coworker was giving me rides home in her car. One night, she shared with me that she suffered with Lupus. I asked her if she would feel comfortable if I prayed for her. She said yes. Not long after that, she came to the office busting with happiness! She took me to her office, closed the door, looked me in the eye and said: "Okay, please tell me about this "prayer" thing!" The Lord had did a miracle regarding her disease and she wanted to know how prayer works! To GOD goes ALL the glory! When we let our Christian lights shine-others will be asking us about Jesus. Amen? Lift Him up and He will draw them!

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And that's part of the point. If we surrender the battlefield, we're not there for those moments. A lot of serving God is both being available and willing to be used by Him when the time comes. I'm hoping that I start going to cons and people come up to me asking about what's inside my books since I insert actual scripture in there.

 

[GiLGiJ]

If we surrender the battlefield, we're not there for those moments. A lot of serving God is both being available and willing to be used by Him when the time comes.

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a crafty, crafty trick of being superficially nice to entice *instead of* telling them the gospel!!!

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Being there and being kind is definitely a part of it. And it takes real guts to face them, so preparation in prayer is key.

Preparation, too, of what to say to them once you have their attention is key. What's our goal as Christians? Is the kindness the goal? Maybe. Maybe, even before planting the seed and then watering for God to give the increase, there's softening the ground and making it ready to receive the seed of salvation doctrine.

So go out, soften the ground, and be ready to be seen by your God's enemies as so kind, so gentle and persuasive with the truth that those who will receive the seed will receive it gladly when it does come to them, because God is able to ensure the they somehow hear what they must believe and what they must do to be saved, now or in the distant future.

And in the mean time, let the whole World know that Christ has changed us. He has changed us from what we were before. He has solved our problems which came from the very sins you will see at these conferences. Maybe there's a literary idea in that.

 

[Whendancer64]

HONORING THE REAL REASON WHY THE LORD HAS YOU WHERE YOU ARE.
Years ago, I had a "brief" employment as an Employment Specialist at a shelter for homeless men. It was my job to oversee their computer lab, create and facilitate employment readiness classes, and assist with writing various employment related documents to assist their tenants to get employed. That was what I was being paid to do but the Lord had given me that position to bring about His will while I was there.

Because federal funding was used in the making of that Computer lab, it was, also, open to the public. So, that meant that if anyone from the community needed my assistance, then I would have to make my skills available to them as well.

One morning, this REALLY rude lady came in, and was so disrespectful to me that her actions got the attention of everyone there. One person, in particular, was a transvestite that I will refer to as "Blaze". He would come to the lab, in women's clothing and makeup, just because he liked being some place other than the streets.
He, also, enjoyed being any place that did not "shame" him, I think. I tried my best to make it feel as "welcoming" as possible so that people would feel comfortable enough in the lab to want to keep coming back. So Blaze.... just kept coming.

Blake could see and hear all that rude person was doing to me and he was getting madder and madder by the minute. When I went to my desk, he asked me why I did not "snap" on her and, instead, was polite to her. I told him that I am a Christian. And, that my Lord Jesus had set a standard of conduct that meant that even when people would try to "take me there", I was not obligated to go. I am a Christian.

At the end of my shift, Blaze showed up at my desk. He told me that he was, now, ready to become a Christian. Even as I type this, I remember how "stunned" I was. So much, in fact, that I led Blaze to our "Breakroom" and had a long talk with him about what all that one must believe before they can make such a life changing committment. He left there looking like I just "blasted" him with a hose connected to a fire hydrant!

Well...when I got home, the HOLY SPIRIT blasted me! And, He did not use a "still small voice", either. He scolded me. He reminded me that when HE puts a fish in the boat that I was NEVER to toss it back into the water! Convicted? You better believe that I was!

I couldn't wait to see Blaze that next morning. And, when I did: BACK TO THE BREAKROOM WE WENT! I asked him if he STILL wanted to received Christ and, by GOD'S grace....he did!
After we prayed those life changing words, Blaze smiled! The first thing that he wanted to do was to call his godly mother. She was the FIRST person that he wanted to know about his conversion.

From then on, I learned that whenever the Lord has persons of the LGBT+ community, that I am to not see it as a bigger challenge than if I am witnessing to those outside of that community. We ALL fall short of the glory of GOD. We ALL need the saving blood of Jesus Christ to wash away our sins. We ALL need to be filled with His Holy Spirit so that we can become new creations. ALL MEANS ALL!

TRUTH IS TRUTH! And, it doesn't matter if you are at a special event or conference of any kind: EVERYWHERE WE GO IS A BATTLEFIELD OF ONE KIND OR ANOTHER!
When the PASSION OF CHRIST came out, the Lord had me seated next to a muslim woman. Her, and her husband, came to see what this crucifixion of Jesus Christ was really about. She and I had a really great conversation before the movie started. I had brought an extra New Testament for such an occassion. When I handed to her, she asked, "You are giving me this?" I responded, "Yes."

Again, KNOW that you are where you are doing what you are doing for more than what you think. Whether you are going to the movies, or taking your dog to be groomed, or settled in your "usual" seat at Starbucks. Expect the Lord to use you to make Himself to known to someone that may not be willing to go to a religious edifice. You may be the seed planter. You may be the seed waterer. Just be ready, and willing, not to see anything but the person's needy soul. And, let the Holy Spirit give you the right words to say and do that would convey that you REALLY do care about the outcome of that encounter.

And, don't forget to pray for them afterwards. If you can: get a name. If they don't offer one, pray for them, anyway, when you are in your prayer closet. Our Lord knows everything about them. He knows why He led them to cross your path. Amen?

TO GOD GOES ALL THE GLORY FOR THESE TESTIMONIES! ! AMEN!

Blessings!

PS - For those that will argue that I should not be practicing my faith on "company time", please hear my heart on this and not see it as being "spiritually arrogant." I have purposed in my heart that before I am ANYONE'S employee - I AM AN AMBASSSADOR FOR CHRIST. So, if someone wants to fire me because someone comes to me asking me "what must I do to be saved?" and my earthly boss doesn't like it: Whatever happens...happens! Nothing, absolutely, nothing is more important than letting the Lord use you to lead someone to the cross! YES! IT'S THAT IMPORTANT!!!

PSS- M.D. - Have you ever heard of CHICK PUBLICATIONS? When I was new to the faith, I was introduced to them by reading some of the comic book style tracts that they produce. Maybe, that is another option you may want to explore besides putting scriptures in your books. The style of your artwork, featured in this thread, could reach a whole new generation that may not be interested in the antiquated one used by CHICK. Something to pray about.......amen?

 

[M. D. Boncher]

EVERYWHERE WE GO IS A BATTLEFIELD OF ONE KIND OR ANOTHER!

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heh heh... I'll just consider the comicons and festivals a "target rich environment".

 

[Jeff Potts]

Amen to everything @M. D. Boncher said, and more.

I'll add this: it goes beyond meeting these lost people where they are. It's also elevating people that can reach them.

I'm Christian (duh). I'm an unabashed conservative. I posted a tweet last weekend bemoaning the fact that conservatives (and you can add Christians to that list) don't support conservative creators. The last time I checked, it had 41,000+ views, 300+ likes and I forget how many retweets.

I struck a nerve.

Jesus went into riotous house parties filled with disbelievers and left with followers. He didn't get those followers by condemning the party or the people there. He went in, told a few stories, explained the things he believed and reached people.

Yet, nowadays, we have guys like Matt Walsh claiming anything he doesn't like or value is satanic, childish, whatever. That means science fiction, fantasy, video games, comics, manga, dungeons and dragons, whatever. Well, guess what? That kinda talk isn't going to attract anything. All you're doing is erecting a barrier that divides you from them. The reality is you want to make them value the same things as you. It's a lot easier if them didn't have to climb the wall you erected.

It was at this very site where I was told that male readers were leaving fiction, and not coming back. That if I want to make it as a writer, I'd need to focus on what sells. Well, my readership is roughly 70% male. I have Christians, atheists, and undecideds reading my books - the last one focusing on a dutiful, faithful hero who took up a task he never really wanted. His actions even started to change others. Real "Christian-y" stuff. Oddly enough, the only people I know of who didn't like the story were...Christians.

(No anyone at this site that I know of, I might add. I'm not calling anyone out here.)

Cripes. I even put in divine intervention. Only one person I know caught that.

More to the point: I've sold hundreds of books thus far, on a shoestring budget, not knowing what I was doing. I still don't know what I'm doing. And yet, I have people contacting me on social media asking me when the next book comes out. I know for a fact that people have read one of my books, and immediately went out and bought the other. Giving people what they really want - as opposed just giving up on them - actually works. What they want is stuff that has substance. The medium by which that message is delivers is utterly irrelevant.

The fact is, if you want something, you go out and get it - it ain't coming to you. And if you claim you want to save souls, you go out and save souls. Don't expect them to leap the crevasse that lay between.

 

[GiLGiJ]

Jesus went into riotous house parties filled with disbelievers and left with followers. He didn't get those followers by condemning the party or the people there. He went in, told a few stories, explained the things he believed and reached people.

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If I understand you correctly, Jeff, this is a very common sentiment, but I think this changes the reality by a large margin and actually is against what the Bible says. Jesus did use strong condemnations. When He went to eat with the Pharisees and they started to say something evil, He tore into them, and then He got up and left! He called them children of Satan! He said something very strong against the entire generation. I don't know what riotous house party He was at without using such language (what's the reference? I'd like to see that), but, at least in general, we see Him strongly making a clear division between children of God and children of the devil.

Salvation by the gospel that Paul preached is our application of Jesus' method. He talked about the Kingdom of God, the salvation doctrine of the Jews before His great saving work was accomplished. He did tell people that they were condemned and how to be saved from that condemnation and from the outcome of their sin.

According to Romans 10:14a, believe the four facts of 1 Corinthians 15:3b-8 and do the one thing emphasized three times in Romans 10:9-13 to be saved.

Without the new life that comes from it, there's no elevation possible by us being kind to them, because the whole world is dead. The people Jesus reaches, then as now, are those whom the Father gives Him. It has, at the fundamental level, nothing to do with our soulish approaches or styles. He'll get His Word to them somehow, and it's not untrue that they have to be willing to hear it, and it's true that we can put blocks up against their willingness, but our blocks aren't strong enough to keep them from Him, because His Father gave us all to Him, and He didn't lose any, except the Son of Perdition, so the Scriptures would be fulfilled. But if our kindness never, ever (ever) gets around to telling them the Gospel, also, and if we think the Gospel *is* our kindness, then we're doing something other than preaching the Gospel, and some of us are guilty of turning the real Gospel into a pseudo-gospel, obscuring the actual Gospel with our philosophical reasoning that says we must persuade them somehow. Persuasion is soulish and between people, but the Gospel and salvation is spiritual and between each individual and God, always according to the Gospel that Paul first learned and then preached, and which is still being preached today, even though another gospel (but not another) has encroached. Be aware, dear siblings in our same Master and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen? Amen!

 

[Jeff Potts]

I'm Christian (duh). I'm an unabashed conservative. I posted a tweet last weekend bemoaning the fact that conservatives (and you can add Christians to that list) don't support conservative creators. The last time I checked, it had 41,000+ views, 300+ likes and I forget how many retweets.

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I never really finished the point I was trying to make here.

I and many others feel left behind or overlooked by conservatives and Christians. Imagine how far I might be now had I had a mention, or a highlight by the so-called "influencers" in these communities. Or, say, an agent or a publisher that saw the value of what I am trying to do. All I got was rejection and silence.

I'm not a perfect messenger - not by a long shot. I'm not even trying to say the message directly. But the message is more likely to get heard and understood with a bullhorn than me babbling from a hilltop.

And there are a lot of people out there who obviously hold the same sentiment.

 

[GiLGiJ]

Imagine how far I might be now had I had a mention, or a highlight by the so-called "influencers" in these communities.

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Are they judging based on generalities, like genre, or is there some other reason?

 

[M. D. Boncher]

Really well said Jeff! I'm gonna pile on to a point or two you reminded me about.

It was at this very site where I was told that male readers were leaving fiction, and not coming back. That if I want to make it as a writer, I'd need to focus on what sells. Well, my readership is roughly 70% male. I have Christians, atheists, and undecideds reading my books - the last one focusing on a dutiful, faithful hero who took up a task he never really wanted. His actions even started to change others. Real "Christian-y" stuff. Oddly enough, the only people I know of who didn't like the story were...Christians.

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That statement makes me angry, because I've heard it too for years actually. My response now is "So what are you writing that's targeting boys/teen boys/men?" The answer is usually a stupefied stare or mumble about market share and 'whybotherisms'. That's why boys and men are stopping reading! The whole industry is focused almost exclusively on girls and women! In fact, I've seen it become downright hostile toward men because of this self fulfilling prophecy. That's why my books are written for men (and teens maybe). Women can enjoy them too, and my sales are about evenly split from the little info I can get.

And yes, I also have run into Christians rejecting my book, even when given a free copy (to pastors mostly) and some demanded I change how I wrote because it wasn't "Christian" enough, and I was like "That's the point. The character is very much not following Christ!" It actually dissolved the friendship. Then again, the spiritual warfare aspect has made several uncomfortable because of that. In the end, they're not the target audience if that is the case. People who understand what it's like to be on the "wrong side of the tracks" tend to get more from my stories. As I would have back in the day when I was in the occult or at least lost. It would have gotten me to at least think about things and act as a sign post toward Him.

More to the point: I've sold hundreds of books thus far, on a shoestring budget, not knowing what I was doing. I still don't know what I'm doing. And yet, I have people contacting me on social media asking me when the next book comes out. I know for a fact that people have read one of my books, and immediately went out and bought the other. Giving people what they really want - as opposed just giving up on them - actually works. What they want is stuff that has substance. The medium by which that message is delivers is utterly irrelevant.

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Then you're doing better than 90% of all authors out there. The numbers are that bad, so congratulations. I'm glad you're doing so well and still staying on message. We've all got our path and part to play in this. Keep up the awesome work.

 

[Jeff Potts]

If I understand you correctly, Jeff, this is a very common sentiment, but I think this changes the reality by a large margin and actually is against what the Bible says. Jesus did use strong condemnations. When He went to eat with the Pharisees and they started to say something evil, He tore into them, and then He got up and left! He called them children of Satan!

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It might have something to do with this:

Matthew 23:

2 The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. 3 So obey everything they teach you, but don't do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else.

4 They pile heavy burdens on people's shoulders and won't lift a finger to help. 5 Everything they do is just to show off in front of others. They even make a big show of wearing Scripture verses on their foreheads and arms, and they wear big tassels[a] for everyone to see. 6 They love the best seats at banquets and the front seats in the synagogues. 7 And when they are in the market, they like to have people greet them as their teachers.

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Those tax collectors and prostitutes? They were considered rejects, primarily by the very same people Jesus often condemned.

People who should have known better. You know, kinda like Matt Walsh.

Jesus called sinners to Him. The Pharisees didn't want to hear the call. They constantly tested Him. Schemed against Him. Inwardly and outwardly rejected Him. Can anyone say the same of the known moral degenerates of that era?

The only people not seeking God are those that are dead-set against it, for whatever reason in their hearts and their minds. Everyone else, however, wants to find him, whether they admit it to themselves or not. One can easily excuse confusion, as the harsh realities of existence will correct that in time. One can't, however, excuse hostility and rebellion against God.

Plus, and this is important, God sets a much higher standard on those who speak for him as opposed to those that don't. The Pharisees and the priests of the Temple were direct representatives of God and were judged accordingly. That's why they usually bore the brunt of the ire of Jesus.

I'm not excusing moral degeneracy my any means. But, if you're going to call sinners to God, you need to go where they sinners are, and speak to them in a language they understand. Throwing out Bible verses and ladling out condemnation from the outset isn't going to accomplish that task. Which is why, I think, Jesus was fond of speaking in parables. Because people will listen and ponder a story more than a lecture.

 

[Jeff Potts]

Then you're doing better than 90% of all authors out there. The numbers are that bad, so congratulations. I'm glad you're doing so well and still staying on message. We've all got our path and part to play in this. Keep up the awesome work.

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Thanks.

 

[M. D. Boncher]

Those tax collectors and prostitutes? They were considered rejects, primarily by the very same people Jesus often condemned.

People who should have known better. You know, kinda like Matt Walsh.

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One minor quibble and that is I wouldn't lump Matt Walsh in as a pharisee. At least as far as I know he's not being the hypocrite Jesus was waning against. It's just his ministry, if you want to call him that, is to make people aware of the law, like the scribes were supposed to. He's being the warning sign about cultural rot and ruin that we are infested with and is attacked by the parasites who would destroy what Christianity has brought, culturally, to the world in its ideals. The ones who hear him the best are, of course, the choir who already believes like he does, and want to hear their beliefs put forth in a firey manner, standing up for the faith. The other group who hear him best are the ones who already have God's splinter in their heart and know what they're doing is wrong. To them, he can build them up, or at least force them to choose what they want. This isn't a bad thing either, but it's not for most people. To those who do not need this form of evangelism, it can seem an irritant or worse, detriment. Much like how I came to have a strong distaste for Billy Graham style evangelisms and crusades. Then again, there are people who need just that style of outreach.

So although I wouldn't be so harsh about Matt Walsh, your warning is true about that sort of engagement.

It reminds me very much of this exchange, which seems to be getting pondered a bit in my church as of late:

Mar 9:38 Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”
Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.
Mar 9:40 “For he who is not against us is on our[fn] side.
Mar 9:41 “For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.

More and more I'm trying to remember this passage when confronted with people preaching the Gospel in a manner or to a people I do not feel a calling to engage with. Someone out there needs it, just not me.

 

[Jeff Potts]

Are they judging based on generalities, like genre, or is there some other reason?

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I don't know.

Mainly because they ain't interested in me, and I'm not going to act like a star-struck fan wanting some sort of acknowledgement.

That being said, there are a couple of big names that have helped me - one being Larry Correia (Mormon). The guy may be a foul-mouthed flamethrower on Twitter, but I highly suspect those WriterDojo ads I ran have garnered me as many readers as all of the pavement-pounding I've done thus far.

I'm also close to other big names as well. Few - if any - of them have taken the time to give my stuff a look. But it's not just influencers. It's also so-called Christian agents and publishers. They've seen some of my work. Zero interest. "Not right for our lists," and all...

But I'll wager the minute I start making a name for myself, they'll suddenly appear in my orbit. You know, past the point when I actually needed them.

I see clearly now why so many artists are jaded.

 

[M. D. Boncher]

But I'll wager the minute I start making a name for myself, they'll suddenly appear in my orbit. You know, past the point when I actually needed them.

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EXACTLY! I mean, I remember a lecture by Steve Laube. Agent and former owner of Enclave Publishing among many other achievements, when he pointed out that the companies get you access to tens of thousands of retailers, and marketing tools to reach hundreds of thousands, but at the same time, I'm not seeing those people snapping up indie authors as much as turning up their nose except for the most milquetoast down the genre center lane writers, either. So that may be true, but how many writers get that treatment in the world? A few thousand? A few hundred? I know big firms won't do a dime of marketing if you can't prove consistent draws of a million dollars a year. Nor do I see many if any working to flex their marketing muscle to develop a book they think is good because the author doesn't have a million dollar track record. The amount of self fulfilling prophecy in this industry is astonishing. The biggest success story of this being done is also the best selling book series of all time: Harry Potter, because Scholastic took the risk and developed it with Rowling. (despite of what I think of them and her, you gotta respect the factual achievements).

That's when a person/group/company that would have become an excellent partner and great working relationship turns into a parasite looking to just drain you dry. So guard your IPs and rights closely.

 

[Jeff Potts]

One minor quibble and that is I wouldn't lump Matt Walsh in as a pharisee. At least as far as I know he's not being the hypocrite Jesus was waning against. It's just his ministry, if you want to call him that, is to make people aware of the law, like the scribes were supposed to. He's being the warning sign about cultural rot and ruin that we are infested with and is attacked by the parasites who would destroy what Christianity has brought, culturally, to the world in its ideals.

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We have women thinking they're men, and children being mutilated as a form of coerced "self-expression." We're waaaaaay past the warning sign stage. And while Matt Walsh has done some good, spitting in the eye of like-minded creators, then doubling-down, isn't a winning strategy.

Lecturing people to "grow up," while you still continue to troll Twitter like a smarmy AP high-schooler isn't exactly a winning message. And, yeah, that accurately describes what Walsh does.

Secondly, telling someone to "grow up," whose parents have been negligent in guiding them on the path to adulthood also doesn't help. They need example and something to aspire to. Last time I checked, Walsh wasn't providing that.

But the media they already consume can.

You know, the stuff Walsh calls "satanic."

Which is why I basically don't listen to the guy anymore. Because he's not interested in accomplishing anything other than promoting himself.

 

[M. D. Boncher]

We have women thinking they're men, and children being mutilated as a form of coerced "self-expression." We're waaaaaay past the warning sign stage. And while Matt Walsh has done some good, spitting in the eye of like-minded creators, then doubling-down, isn't a winning strategy.

Lecturing people to "grow up," while you still continue to troll Twitter like a smarmy AP high-schooler isn't exactly a winning message. And, yeah, that accurately describes what Walsh does.

Secondly, telling someone to "grow up," whose parents have been negligent in guiding them on the path to adulthood also doesn't help. They need example and something to aspire to. Last time I checked, Walsh wasn't providing that.

But the media they already consume can.

You know, the stuff Walsh calls "satanic."

Which is why I basically don't listen to the guy anymore. Because he's not interested in accomplishing anything other than promoting himself.

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Fair 'nuff. It's the same reasons I don't listen to Ben Shapiro either. You're not debating/lecturing people, you're seal clubbing noobs in an FPS.
On the other hand, I will say Dr. Jordan Peterson is an excellent example of how to put out the "Grow Up" message for a pair of generations that desperately need it and having great success doing it. Then again, with books like "12 Rules for Life" and the like, he's providing ideals and methods to aspire to and in some ways the manner in which to achieve it.

 

[Jeff Potts]

Fair 'nuff. It's the same reasons I don't listen to Ben Shapiro either. You're not debating/lecturing people, you're seal clubbing noobs in an FPS.
On the other hand, I will say Dr. Jordan Peterson is an excellent example of how to put out the "Grow Up" message for a pair of generations that desperately need it and having great success doing it. Then again, with books like "12 Rules for Life" and the like, he's providing ideals and methods to aspire to and in some ways the manner in which to achieve it.

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Peterson told them to grow up.

Peterson also wept for them, knowing what they were going through.

That's more Christian than any other "Christian," pundit I've seen thus far.

 

[GiLGiJ]

Can anyone say the same of the known moral degenerates of that era?

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Jesus had to overtly call out the leaders, because they affected other peoples' lives, so we only see comparative glimpses of Him rejecting the common degenerate, like the rich young ruler, who rejected Him first.

It's not so much that Jesus never talked to the common people - He preached quite convincingly to the Pharisees as well as the common people - but He went out of His way to actively lead and feed the people who were interested in His preaching. When He fed the thousands, they had followed Him into the wilderness a long distance, and after that preaching He gave them the necessary physical gift so they could get back. When He did eat at the Pharisee's house, He only stayed as long as they behaved. That's very important to note, as it gives us a guideline in just how and to what extent we are supposed to intermingle with the World for the purpose of leading them to Christ. We might even make it to a wicked, vile convention of sexual perversion, but we'd still be there to preach the gospel. Being their friends to subtly beguile them into wanting Christ isn't going to work, and that's not the gospel.

The only people not seeking God are those that are dead-set against it, for whatever reason in their hearts and their minds. Everyone else, however, wants to find him

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That's not true. The way is wide that leads to destruction, and many travel it, as opposed to the few who travel the Way of Life. Everyone wants to deny Him. Only those the Father has given to the Son will come. And they will come, regardless of our methods and works on their behalf. It's true that they need to believe Him to come to Him, and they need a preacher to hear about His great saving work (you know the one) - that's the biblical method - but what verse shows Peter or Paul or James cozying up to someone over any real time for the purpose of trust-building? They spend their time with the Worldlings proclaiming truths about God, and it's up to the individual to accept or reject Him, not based on trust of another human being but on God's call to each of us. I know that trustworthiness exists, it's just not something that we need to subvert the real gospel to establish, and doing so is not trustworthy! Loving God and His purpose beyond loving others and self is necessary to help with His work.

Throwing out Bible verses and ladling out condemnation from the outset isn't going to accomplish that task. Which is why, I think, Jesus was fond of speaking in parables. Because people will listen and ponder a story more than a lecture.

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I know it seems that way. We've had a lot of teaching from the World on how to approach people, but that famous book about winning friends and influencing people is just a guide on how to subvert the truth in order to get people to believe enough false things about you that they're not offended by your actual views. And we also had a rash of preachers hating people and screaming at their own congregations every Sunday. It's probably useful in some cases to scream, but it's never helpful to hate people's guts. We are told in the Bible to love our enemies. So, we cannot hate them. Love the sinner (including every human, me and Hitler) and hate the sin (both his and mine, equally).

Not accepting Christ is the worse possible sin, and it deserves infinite punishment.

About parables, the Bible says the opposite to what you've said here (and I've heard it more than once on here recently): Jesus taught in parables so the ones who were not called by God would NOT understand and turn toward the truth (Mark 4:10-12). He used straightforward explanations for those who are His.

Bible verses are the sword of the Spirit of God - it's what we are supposed to use with the unsaved. The gospel is inherently divisive (aka, holy; causing separation), even when Worldlings smile back at us, and that's the goal! They do know what's going on. They will not turn, because God didn't call them, and they cannot - we could not turn toward Him by our own wits or knowledge, as extensive as it might have been, or by trusting someone else who told us about Him; He turns us toward Himself.

Making friends with the world is what spiritual adultery has always been (see James 4:4).

Consider 2 Corinthians 4:4 - "In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

We have to find ways of glorifying Christ even more than we condemn humanity. Condemnations are just a background tool against which we expose how wonderful Jesus is to have heroically suffered torture on purpose to save His enemies. That's the picture even more than kindness and personal trustworthiness. We cannot hold ourselves up as the standard, so condemnations are the necessary background to hold Christ up as glorious and desirable.

what Christianity has brought, culturally, to the world in its ideals

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The World isn't taking on any more of Christ's ways than they need to take on as a mechanism of their father Satan's pretense of being an angel of light. They are mimicking many aspects of God's Word, the Scriptures, while still rejecting God's Word and Christ, Jesus. For instance, the 12 Steps programs ripped good counsel out of the Bible and separated God from it. After a short while, they folded some type of faith in because they had to in order for the other elements to function properly. So they rediscovered the power of idolatry as opposed to pure humanistic materialism. So also this present society is making nice in order to slowly gather the nations together in order to perfect their money machinery and to prepare for Antichrist's rule over an amalgamated people. Being nice to each other and having forms of law which they learned from the Bible are just necessary components of the World getting together without undue tension to accomplish an evil goal.

There are different styles for different people.

We *should* take their state into account when forming our approach to each individual.

The main thing is not to think the actual knowledge of sin, Hell, judgement, and Christ's great saving work are somehow disreputable. They can be told with a soft voice to those who are already upset about their own sin and already want to know the answer. Those who aren't already upset about their sin (a vast number of people) need to understand the problem of sin first. They think sin is a desirable way to have fun, and they don't see that it's the (only) cause of death.