Plotters plot and pansters?

[Darrel Bird]

Ok, aside from all the Youtube freaks telling us how to write using Chatgpt, lets talk about real writers using only their own brain to tell a story.



It seems there is two types of writers, and I can't write about plotters, because I ain't one of them, I'm a panster.

Plotters plot and pansters? Do what..pants? Oh well...what do I get out of writing by the seat of the pants? Holes in my pants? No....



When I write I don't know whats going to happen from the time I write the first paragraph until I write the last paragraph. I really don't know where my characters are going. They tell me who they are, and where they want to go, so in effect, I'm living my story in my own mind without ever having to live through a rerun. That is the joy of being a panster.

 

[suspensewriter]

Let's say what others have to say about this, @Darrel Bird , but I'm a pantser, too!

 

[Wes B]

It seems there is two types of writers, and I can't write about plotters, because I ain't one of them, I'm a panster.

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I'm told there are two types of people: those who put everything into two categories, and those who don't...

But I'm merely told this. I try my best to back away from most "two categories" distinctions, though they can exist, sometimes.

I'm gonna suspect that, while there are some who start writing with no particular outcome in mind, there's a vast spectrum of people out there, concerning how much effort and organization they'll put in ahead of time. There will also be a vast spectrum concerning how flexible they are able (or choose) to modify the plan as the work begins to unfold. There are people who, knowing a basic plan, will write some or all of the work out of sequence, depending on which parts seem more fixed, more malleable, more fun to play around with, or which help crystalize some part of the plan that's still hazy.

Now, if two categories help you somehow, then by all means, draw your line where you will. Yet I think that understanding the vast array of options available out there may help someone who finds that their current method isn't giving the results (or the writing experience!) that they'd like.

 

[M. D. Boncher]

Plotters plot and pansters? Do what..

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We engage in exploratory writing. And we keep what's good, throw out what's bad.
But I'm a binging plantser. That means I have a very rough outline. I know the starting point, what I want for "victory conditions" and key scenes along the way. Then I release the characters to find their own road there with minimal nudging.

As for the "binging" part. I don't write for long periods of time, cogitating on what I want to say, then it bursts out in a huge flood of productivity. And then it ebbs and flows till another big burst or drought. I very much see my style very much like the Oracle's speech in the Matrix Reloaded where she tells Neo he'd already made his choice, now he has to understand his choice. For me, this is part of my process even on a subconscious level.

 

[Accord64]

But I'm a binging plantser.

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Nice one.

I'd call myself a plotster. I have a starting point, an end point, and a general plot course to follow. My characters are also defined ahead of time. So I line them up at the starting line and fire the starter pistol. They each run off in the correct direction, but their exact path is defined on the fly. As long as they stay in the lines of the plot, and within their character traits, they can blaze whatever path comes to me.

 

[Johne]

Plotters plot and pansters? Do what..

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Pantsers Discovery write.

 

[scoot]

I don't know where I fit. I'm new to all this, but I'd consider myself a chaos'er.

I guess that's like being a panster, except that sometimes I find myself writing myself into a corner and going "oh great - how can I get the character out of this mess now" and have to backtrack if I can't find a solution. I was playing with a sequel to my first book (which isn't finished yet ), the creative juices were just flowing so I started typing. I had a beginning, and then I had a large part in the middle, but I struggled for ages to try and find a way to link the two together. It's all being kind of chaotic. At the same time, it's been enjoyable. Daydreaming has haunted me for decades in my life. Finally - I've found an outlet to it where it could be a blessing instead of a curse.

What I would be interested in knowing is not only who's a panster and who's a plotter, but why they write? Is it a hobby/side adventure, or whether it's their profession / primary means of income. If I was to hazard a ignorant guess, it wouldn't surprise me if people who do this for enjoyment (hobbists) lean towards panster, and people who do this professionally would lean a bit more to plotter, as I'm guessing plotting is probably more efficient re time vs content ratio, but pantstering is probably more enjoyable?

 

[BAMB]

What I would be interested in knowing is not only who's a panster and who's a plotter, but why they write? Is it a hobby/side adventure, or whether it's their profession / primary means of income. If I was to hazard a ignorant guess, it wouldn't surprise me if people who do this for enjoyment (hobbists) lean towards panster, and people who do this professionally would lean a bit more to plotter, as I'm guessing plotting is probably more efficient re time vs content ratio, but pantstering is probably more enjoyable?

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I think I kind of burst your theory there lol I'm a very logical brained person who thinks in terms of lists and paths forward, so I'm naturally a plotter. I always think in terms of "first this, then this, then this" in an outline form. My husband tries to help me figure things out by saying "And then what happens?" but that never works for me, I'm afraid. I need that logical guide to follow - I'm not very good at spur of the moment.

But for me, character creation and story lining is an enjoyable hobby. I'd never want to make a profession of it; I just enjoy creating rich characters and worlds and story for them to exist and move within, and I just want to tell those stories of those characters that I've come to love so much to other people so they can enjoy them too!

 

[suspensewriter]

I try my best to back away from most "two categories" distinctions, though they can exist, sometimes.

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@Darrel Bird and I are two of them!

I think I kind of burst your theory there lol I'm a very logical brained person who thinks in terms of lists and paths forward, so I'm naturally a plotter.

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Wow! It must be nice, to know where you're going!

I'd call myself a plotster.

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But I'm a binging plantser.

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That's two for the middle road, @Wes B ! One more pantser and we'll win the contest (@scoot doesn't count, because he's still discovering what kind of writer he is).

So, I guess it's a tie in the what kind of writer contest are you! Come on pantsers! Where are you?

 

[Wes B]

That's two for the middle road, @Wes B ! One more pantser and we'll win the contest (@scoot doesn't count, because he's still discovering what kind of writer he is).

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Yes! As I hope I pointed out clearly, there's a range of possible options, and I'll bet that most everybody here has experimented with that range at least a bit. There are times when we might be faced with a particularly thorny problem, or just feel like playing around, and try a slightly different tack. If that's the case, then we're probably not so much "stuck" in a writing method, as we have a preference or comfort zone we operate in. If we're just writing for ourselves, we can be as comfy/cozy as we'd like. If we've got a deadline, then we do whatever it takes to meet the requirements, and go outside the comfort zone, as needed.

As a nonfiction writer, I've used all of the methods I described above. None were really hard to learn (some are easier to use!), and if we can have more tools available, it can help in a pinch. I mean, a carpenter may use a sander much more often than a compound-miter saw, but when he needs a compound miter, he's glad he's learned how to figure 'em... So, while I'll sometimes "pants"-it, I'll frequently have a list of points/feelings to inspire, and very often write things out of order.

It depends on the problem I'm solving. How do I leave my audience? Amused? Enlightened? Entertained? Informed? Called to action? I'll often write the ending first, so's to end with whichever of those feelings I want. I have a primary list of 20 possibilities that I choose from, and can pick a combo of 2 or 3, which often completely changes the content I'm about to write. It strongly affects the body of the piece, since that mostly contains pieces that give the impression of leading "inevitably" toward the finish. (If it looks like the ending was planned for the piece, well, I did see it coming...) Then I'll write the beginning, with a suitable opening hook and promises that I know I'll keep, 'cuz I've already seen what I'm gonna say. It's reeeeeally easy to open with some metaphor that will directly tie into what I'll soon be talking about, because I've already seen that, too.

In the end, if I did it right, it all looks like I thought carefully ahead, but that's a cheat that makes me look smarter than I am. Writing it backwards lets me see what's about to come before my audience does.

BTW... nonfiction writer that I am, a goodly majority of my posts here are little essays, written with the objective, amuse/inspire/enlighten/entertain. (I'll shoot for at least two, and consider it a big win, if I at least have the illusion of all four...) And, FWIW, this post is half-pants'ed, but half of this is a summary of a speech I delivered about 9 years ago. Nonfiction can be shamelessly self-plagiarized reused.

 

[Jeff Potts]

Pantser with plotter tendencies.

 

[suspensewriter]

FWIW

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You know, I read your whole post assiduously-- but when I came to this, I just froze! What in the heck does FWIW mean??

 

[suspensewriter]

Pantser with plotter tendencies.

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Do you mind if I count that as one more for pantsers?

 

[Wes B]

You know, I read your whole post assiduously-- but when I came to this, I just froze! What in the heck does FWIW mean??

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You're gonna kick yourself... It stands for: For What It's Worth...

And i must say, I appreciate assiduously. I suspect i don't get that very often...

 

[Johne]

Shawn Coyne says there are two extremes, pure Chaos and pure Order. He says the magic happens in the middle when Order and Chaos meld and produce Complexity.

This is mirrored in writing styles: Pantsers (Discovery writers), Plotters (Outliners), and Plantsers (somewhere in the middle).

I'm a Plantser. I use the 5 Commandments of Story to define my five plot points in every scene, and then I discovery write from there.

 

[Sarah Daffy]

So, I guess it's a tie in the what kind of writer contest are you! Come on pantsers! Where are you?

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Plotter!

 

[Darrel Bird]

Scoot said, What I would be interested in knowing is not only who's a panster and who's a plotter, but why they write?

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Probably the reason I posted this is because I am just fascinated with plotters.


What sort of a mind does it take to plot a story and then bring that story to a finish? I am just too simple minded to do that. Not that the rest of the pansters are simple minded, I'm just referring to myself here.

I suspect the reason I began writing was because there were things that needed to be worked out in my subconscious and the Lord used that to bring healing to my own life, and I see through reviews that readers got entertainment and joy from those stories.

 

[BAMB]

Me? I don't really care about moving someone, challenging their world view, or trying to inspire them for change or teaching them something. I find that I want to tell stories simply to entertain, to give people characters they can enjoy and root for and exciting stories of adventure and romance and just have fun.

 

[carolinamtne]

Pantser here. I hated outlining when I was in school, and we had to turn in our outline before we were allowed to write whatever.

 

[paulchernoch]

Too much freedom kills my creativity because I get lost with too many possibilities and cannot start. Locking everything down with a detailed outline kills creativity because I get bored. Some outline is useful to get started and have a goal.

Another dimension to writing is plot-driven versus character-driven. I once felt insecurity that I was plot-driven. “Real” fiction writers are masters of crafting good characters. What changed my mind was when I realized that by defining the plot, I was leaving the dimensions of the characters undefined. Them I had to discover. So my characters ended up surprising me. I might know how the story will end from the beginning, but not how the characters will turn out. When the writer is surprised, that makes it possible for the reader to be surprised.

What might be helpful is not deciding whether to outline, but what to outline. When I wanted to learn how to write a short story that took place in a single day, I outlined rough events hour by hour. i was also trying to write to a real setting, not a fantasy world. So I needed to find interesting settings for each major scene and ensure it was possible to move from one to another in time.

When I developed a whole fantasy world, my goal was a travelogue. The story had to visit each of the interesting places in the world in sequence, and make use of all the major fantasy and magical elements. As I wrote, I went through five different possible villains, until I found the right one. That meant red herrings and keeping the reader in suspense over who the villain was. All along I knew where the major battles would occur, just not who would be on each side.

Also, it took me a third of the way through writing the book to discover the heroine’s character flaws. This method worked. The heroine was as blind to her flaws as I was. It made the revelation of her character feel natural, not scripted.

So figure out what to nail down in the outline. That might be the fruit of a brainstorm. It may be a less important factor, because you want to save the spontaneity for the aspect of the story you feel most passionate about. One area that caused me problems early on was the timeline. If you have a weak area, nail it down. Being spontaneous in every direction all at once is not a skill most of us start out with.