Jump to content
  • entries
    13
  • comments
    9
  • views
    227

What about the ignorant and the unborn?


Jared Williams

253 views

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through him!

 

But.... I hear that book end too many times. 

 

... if God is love, why would he condemn anyone?        Answer: Love without justice is not real love. It's a mockery.

 

... If God really wanted everyone to be saved, couldn't He just make it so?       Answer: Love without choice is not real love. It's mechanistic. God didn't create robots.

 

... Why can't there be more than one way to heaven?            Answer: Truth is not subjective! I will die one day. That is a fact I cannot change just because I want to. 

 

... Doesn't God just want me to be happy?                    Answer: Happiness is a fleeting feeling. Happiness is too shallow. Your purpose is much deeper than that. 

 

... what about those who don't get a chance to hear about God or those who don't have the capacity to choose: like the mentally ill and really young children and babies? 

 

There's the biggest one, right there. What about someone who has never heard of Jesus? What about stillborns? Are they going to hell because they never had a chance to hear about Jesus? 

 

Oh, ye of little faith! 

 

Don't you think God, in His great wisdom, doesn't know innocence from guilt? The Bible actually says that God's foolishness is wiser than our wisest! I love that! Just think, God can be foolish sometimes. And His level of foolishness makes our wisest moments look like child scribbles! He alone knows the heart of all men. Women and children are included in that. Truly it is a matter between God and each person individually, but for the sake of answering the concern, here are some Bible verses that touch on the subject.

 

Romans 1:18-23  

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

 

A few notes on this passage - 1) God's existence is self-evident.   (2) It should be emphasized that this passage is talking about people who "knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him". 

 

There are actually a few historical examples I can point to of this point. In the midst of Roman polytheistic mythology and Emperor worship, one Roman Emperor rose up who believed there was only one true God. Coincidence? I don't think so. Another example. In America, before the Europeans came, the Aztecs religion called for human sacrifices. Then one emperor rose up that claimed there was only one true God and did away with human sacrifice. Coincidence? I think not. Montezuma, this man's son, killed his father and brought back the old religion and the human sacrifice. It is reported his son brought the old religion back and that it was worse than before. Then the Conquistador's came and wiped them out. Coincidence? I think not. 

 

But Romans 1:18-23 is not the only passage that sheds light on this subject. I do not believe the answer is no one is innocent. I believe ignorant innocence IS possible. 

 

John 15:22 - If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.

 

John 9:41 - Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."

 

Twice in the book of John, Jesus says that, in essence, if you were ignorant of your sin, you would not be found guilty. 

 

So... the truly innocent... only God knows. But there is room for forgiveness for those who truly are innocent in their ignorance. That certainly includes stillborns, mentally ill, children too young to understand, and those who have not heard the name of Jesus. 

 

Yet again, I say, Only God knows who is truly innocent. What we must do is learn to trust His judgement. For He is trustworthy! The only one who is trustworthy! Will you trust Him today? 

  • Like 1

7 Comments


Recommended Comments

Guest The Nonchalanté

Posted

You gave this entry so much forethought, and have produced a very well put together rhetorical narrative.

 

Have you considered becoming a Jehovah's Witness? If not, what is the name of your god that you glorify?

Link to comment

Thank you @ Guest The Nonchalanté, but in my research of different faiths, beliefs, and religions, I have done some research on Jehovah's Witness, and I do not agree with some of their interpretations and beliefs. But thank you for your kind comments. 

 

As far as what is the name of my God, I don't believe he can be pigeon-toed into a name we can say with our limited tongue. He is the one and only God of the universe. The one who created all things. He has gone by many names - to Moses, he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” - He also told Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.'"   The Hebrew word for God was "YHWH", or Yahweh. The Hebrews had other words for God. 

El Shaddai - Lord God Almighty 

El Elyon - The Most High God

Adonai - Lord and Master

Jehovah Nissi - The Lord who is my banner

Jehovah Raah - The Lord who is my shepherd

Jehovah Rapha - The Lord who heals

Jehovah Shammah - The Lord who is there

Jehovah Tsidkenu - The Lord who is our righteousness

Jehovah Mekoddishkem - The Lord who sanctifies you 

El Olam - The everlasting God

Elohim - God

El Qanna - God who is jealous   (far from being a name of bad connotation, this means God is jealous of us, for our attention and our praise) 

Jehovah Jireh - The Lord who will provide

Jehovah Shalom - The Lord who is peace

Jehovah Sabaoth - The Lord of hosts. 

 

Don't misunderstand me, These are not different gods. These are all descriptive names of who God is. There is one and only one God. And He is the God of the Bible. God is not a God of a certain language. Therefore, I do not believe he can be caught up on one name. He is who He is. We only have to believe in Him. His name is not as important as who He is. I hope this answers your question, even though it wasn't quite a straight-forward answer...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Guest The Nonchalanté

Posted

On 2/6/2020 at 11:08 PM, Jared Williams said:

Thank you @ Guest The Nonchalanté, but in my research of different faiths, beliefs, and religions, I have done some research on Jehovah's Witness, and I do not agree with some of their interpretations and beliefs. But thank you for your kind comments. 

 

As far as what is the name of my God, I don't believe he can be pigeon-toed into a name we can say with our limited tongue.

 

His name is not as important as who He is. I hope this answers your question, even though it wasn't quite a straight-forward answer...

I appreciate you taking  the time to demonstrate your knowledge of many titles. For a man who is knowledgeable of scripture, and the nuances and concerns in it, are you also not aware that Paul, in his letter addressing the Christians in Rome, brought the very importance of the Divine Name to light?

 

In a great swath of translations, and I'm assuming this is true of the one(s) you favor as well, the critical focus of his message at Romans 10:13 is omitted in favor of being rendered "name of the LORD" instead of giving God his due honor and making us know who - not to be confused with WHAT - he is. Since salvation is connected with knowing someone by name, and putting faith in that someone by means of their given name, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT NAME.

 

The Darby  translation is one of the few out there  that I enjoy. Mainly, because it has the balls to keep certain details in the manuscript(s), in certain contexts. It manages to demystify 'the LORD', and provide the missing insight to the scriptures that many translations today fail to provide. To this post, there is a statement I most enjoy when I come across it in my bible. Leviticus 20:7-8 is an example of that statement, commonly rendered something to the effect of "I am the LORD," "I am the LORD your God." I appreciate the way the Darby renders it. Instead of 'LORD,' a title, it reveals Jehovah, a name.

 

The Bible, from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21, is a narrative themed with the vindication and restoration of God's Name - literally, his reputation and identity - and the salvation of faithful mankind who know him, and are obedient to him.

 

A clear lack of this knowledge, or the absolute aversion to it, even to the point of denial and omission, says many things. It shows many more.

 

Since you are not a True Christian, I'd like to ask you once more: what is the name of the god you glorify?

Link to comment

I hope I do not come across as too brazen in this response, but I do take offense to that last statement that I am "not a True Christian". I do not adhere to The Watchtower's interpretation of the Bible founded by Charles Taze Russell (a known charlatan), but I adhere to the Bible, I believe Jesus is the only way to salvation, and I follow him as a Christ-follower (Christian).   

 

Here is some of the research I have done that supports what I claim above. (This is from my personal website) 

https://www.countertopministries.com/founder-fraud.html

https://www.countertopministries.com/false-prophet.html

https://www.countertopministries.com/new-world-translation.html

 

Likewise, I believe I have answered your question of "what is the name of the god you glorify".  Who He is, is not determined by a name written in a specific man-made language.

 

I used to be a teacher, and my students had a nickname for me, "Mr. Trip". That is nowhere near my name, my middle name, or my last name. But it was an endearing name that came from a funny story during my student-teaching days. Some of them called me by my name, "Mr. Williams", and others called me "Mr. Willy". Simply because they used a different name, doesn't mean they were referring to different people. To get to know "Mr. Trip" was to get to know "Mr. Williams". This is just an analogy, but Jehovah is merely one of many words the ancient Jewish people used to refer to God. It meant "God" to them. A more literal translation would be "I am that I am", in other words, the name God gave Moses in the burning bush when Moses asked for his name. With all the names, or titles - if you will - that I listed above, they are all ways of glorifying God as who He is, God. The creator of heaven and earth, the one who created us and the one who desires a personal relationship with us. 

 

If I do nothing but call Him, "Abba, father." Like Jesus once did, that does not negate or diminish who it is I am speaking of. If I strive to get to know "Abba", speaking of God, that does not somehow prevent me from getting to know the Creator simply because I do not limit myself to referring to Him by a certain name. 

 

Romans 10:13 is a great verse, but it is even better in context. 

 

Romans 10: 9 - 13 (NIV) -  If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

First sentence - You are saved by believing in Jesus, not by knowing a name. 

"As Scriptures says, 'Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.'"  - Who is this "him" Peter referring to? Jesus Christ! 

"...- the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,..." who is this "Lord" Peter is referring to? Jesus Christ! 

"for"  -   meaning therefore, meaning as what is said before this is true, then this follows

"Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."  again, who is Peter referring to? None other than Jesus Christ himself. 

 

FOR - "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." 

 

In fact, ALL translations except the New World Translation has it in such a way. They all agree except the NWT. From the previous links, I cannot bring myself to agree with the translation. 

 

It is interesting though, even in the New World Translation,  here is the verse in context. 

 

Romans 10: 9-13 (NWT) - For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.  For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation. For the scripture says: “No one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. There is the same Lord over all, who is rich toward all those calling on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”

 

Even here, it says that believing in Jesus is how you are saved in verse 9. and it still refers to Jesus when it says "No one who rests his faith on him will be disappointed." and then also still refers to Jesus as "There is the same Lord over all, who is rich towards all those calling on him." but then switches to Jehovah in the last verse. It almost seems that the NWT is encouraging the Trinity here, but I know that the Watchtower sees the concept of the Trinity as something from the Devil. 

 

As a Christ-follower (literal definition of a Christian), I believe that Jesus is the only way to be saved - that He is the way, the truth, and the light, and no one comes to the Father except through him. I believe you would agree with that statement - especially since your translation of John 14:6 is identical to ours - though we may disagree upon other concepts. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment

It was not right to make accusations against Jared (or anyone's) Christianity. It appears the user deleted their account since they made their posts. I think there is nothing more to do at this time but the Moderators will keep their eyes open, and as always, feel free to Report a contentious thread or if you think someone is being attacked.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment

After the first post, I tried to find his profile, but it failed to come up, so he may be habitually creating an account, posting, then deleting the account. 

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Jared Williams said:

After the first post, I tried to find his profile, but it failed to come up, so he may be habitually creating an account, posting, then deleting the account. 

That seems like a lot of work but it's not out of the limits of possibility. If it happens again, please report the comment and we'll escalate from there.

Link to comment
Guest
Add a comment...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.