sizing my work

[triprolo]

I want my book to be a 5x7. I want to size my word document to represent so that I can tell how many pages I've got going. Anyone know how I can do that. Yes I know it's a stupid question and I'm dumb, forgive me. But I figure if anyone else have done it they could tell me exacly how.

[Tommie Lyn]

I don't use Word, I use Works, and it is a simple matter with Works. See if these Works actions can translate to Word:

1. Go to Page Setup
2. Click the tab that says Source, Size & Orientation.
3. On the dropdown "Size" menu, choose "Custom"
4. Change the width measurement to 5
5. Change the height measurement to 7

Voila. Of course, you will need to change all your margins, too. Probably .5 would work with that size page.

[TanyaSue]

Rather than re-organizing/re-designing your document -- you'll redo it all when you're ready to submit your manuscript anyway -- use your word count to determine how many pages your work contains. Let me explain.

A typeset page in a trade paperback or hardcover book has approximately 400 words on it. If you divide you total word count by 400, you'll have an approximate page count for your published book.

Another angle ... A double-spaced manuscript page is approximately 250 words long. Knowing the number of words per typeset page, you can set your goal for book pages then determine how many manuscript pages you need. For example, if you want a 200 page book, you'll need 80,000 words (400 words per page x 200 pages = 80,000 words). That is equal to 320 manuscript pages (80,000 / 250 words per page = 320 manuscript pages).

To throw something else in here ... Stephen King (I just finished reading his book "On Writing") provides a format for editting. He says the second draft equals the first draft minus 10%. So, maybe you just want to write and write until you can't write any more on your topic, THEN think about the page and word counts. ;)

If you still want to reformat your document to SEE the pages, this is how you do it in Word:

1. Go to "File" on the top menu bar.
2. Click on "Page Setup"
3. About half-way down in the "margins" tab (the first one open) you'll see "Pages ... Multiple Pages" and a drop down window. Choose "Book Fold". This will automatically change your paper orientation from 'portrait' to 'landscape' and give you two pages per 8.5 x 11" sheet of paper. Your individual page size is about 5.5 x 8.5". If you really need 5 x 7", you can adjust the margins on this same tab (top of the box).

[ellenjames]

Thanks all!
I've been using a computer for 20+ years and there are still things I don't know. While I don't need to know how to set up Word for a 5 x 7 page, I still need to learn much about Microsoft Works and Word.
Thanks again,

Bertha
www.freewebs.com/wayber

[Tommie Lyn]

Another angle ... A double-spaced manuscript page is approximately 250 words long. Knowing the number of words per typeset page, you can set your goal for book pages then determine how many manuscript pages you need. For example, if you want a 200 page book, you'll need 80,000 words (400 words per page x 200 pages = 80,000 words). That is equal to 320 manuscript pages (80,000 / 250 words per page = 320 manuscript pages).
Using those formulas may or may not work, depending on the nature of your work. For instance, I have quite a lot of dialogue in my ms, which can mean fewer words per page and more lines per number of words. The dialogue sections will take many more pages to print than the number of words in them would seem to indicate.

[triprolo]

Thankyou all. Thankyou.

[TanyaSue]

Using those formulas may or may not work, depending on the nature of your work. For instance, I have quite a lot of dialogue in my ms, which can mean fewer words per page and more lines per number of words. The dialogue sections will take many more pages to print than the number of words in them would seem to indicate.

You're right! The numbers I gave were estimations (obviously) for nonfiction (not so obvious). I'm sure it's very different for fiction or pieces with extensive dialog. I should have clarified. Thanks for keeping me on my toes! :)

[righter1]

See, here's where I think everyone has an opinion...

I just finished reading (about 2 months ago now!) Janet Evanovich's 'How I Write', which is, admittedly, geared mainly towards mysteries/fiction. She says to gear it to about 300 words/page. She gives the following recommendations for aligning your page so you get that and is representative of what it'll look like when sending to a publisher or an agent.

Use 14 pt Geneva font, double-spaced. Have the TOP MARGIN set at 1.9 inches, have the bottom at 1.3 inches. Left is 1.5, right is 1.7.

Now, I don't know what program she uses (I understand she writes primarily on an iBook.) But, I don't seem to have Geneva font in MS Word, and I find that double spacing it gives me like 200 words/page. So, I keep my formatting at the same margins, but use 12 point Franklin Gothic font and set my spacing at 1.5 lines rather than 2. I also always, always, always make sure 'Widow/Orphan Control' is turned off. (If anyone doesn't know what this is, it automatically moves paragraphs so the first line to a paragraph isn't at the bottom of a page, and I think it does something if the last line of a paragraph is at the top of a page, but I can't remember what it does to that.) You can find that in the 2nd tab in the paragraph settings portion of MS Word.

[lfutral]

Ah see I just learned something new here, thanks righter1.

[Tommie Lyn]

See, here's where I think everyone has an opinion...
I have encountered so many sources which give the same formatting suggestions or rules that I stick by what they say: 12pt font, New Courier or Times New Roman, double spaced, 1 inch margins. My editor (who was Stephen King's first editor) told me that while publishers will accept deviations from best-selling authors, they are tough as nails on new authors, so it's best to stick with the tried-and-true rules for manuscript formatting.

With that being said, the formatting changes I suggested to triprolo were strictly to get a word count to satisfy his curiosity of how many pages the manuscript would produce if it was printed as a 5 by 7 book. I wasn't suggesting that he should use those settings for a manuscript for submission.

I would agree with his desire to do that if he is concerned about the final number of pages in a printed book. I do not use any of the formulas to determine the number of printed pages my manuscript would produce, because the formulas don't work for me. I have too much dialogue and I use short paragraphs.

For instance, if I used the formula: 400 words per page x 200 pages = 80,000 words). That is equal to 320 manuscript pages (80,000 / 250 words per page = 320 manuscript pages) my 73,000 word manuscript would be 292 pages long. But it is actually 353 pages long. So, by that formula, I should have 88,250 words on those 353 pages, or, 15,000 more words than I actually have. It all depends on the structure of your manuscript, if you have short or long paragraphs and if you have a considerable amount of dialogue.

[TanyaSue]

I agree with TommyLyn ... genre and writing style can influence formulas.

Regardless of how we format our documents at home, it is most important that we format them according to the editors guidelines before sending in our manuscripts. As long as we give them what they want when they want it, the rest is just our personal preferences. We can color it purple, if we want! Whatever makes it easiest for us to get it done well is what we need to do. Then reformatted it to get it published.

[triprolo]

With that being said, the formatting changes I suggested to triprolo were strictly to get a word count to satisfy his curiosity of how many pages the manuscript would produce if it was printed as a 5 by 7 book. I wasn't suggesting that he should use those settings for a manuscript for submission.

I would agree with his desire to do that if he is concerned about the final number of pages in a printed book. I do not use any of the formulas to determine the number of printed pages my manuscript would produce, because the formulas don't work for me. I have too much dialogue and I use short paragraphs.

This is exactly what I wanted to do. I'll worry about the rest later. I'm so new at this, I'm just comparing what I want to other books I'm reading. This gives me some idea. I have no clue how many words are supposed to be on a page or in a chapter or so forth. But when I read books, this gives me ideas what I want on length. Thankyou!

[Tommie Lyn]

Triprolo,

A further word on this subject.

I'm setting up my NaNovel to be printed by lulu.com. Of the available sizes, 4.25 X 6.875 comes closest to the size you want. That's the size I wanted, but I'll probably choose 6 X 9, because of the price (in case I want to buy additional copies for friends and family). Here's why:

When I resized my work for 4.25 X 6.875, single-spaced, 12pt Times New Roman, with .5 margins, the number of pages became 427 (and I'll have to add blank pages to make the number divisible by 4), which will make the cost to print it $13.13. If it was a book I was going to sell, I'd have to make the retail price close to $20 to accrue any profit at all (after the cuts for the printer and the book store). That's for a paperback book. Who is going to pay that much for a paperback?

When I resized it for 6 X 9, it became 276 pages using 1 inch margins (preferable)-- making the price to print $9.05. Or, 220 pages using .5 inch margins, making the price $8.93.

Quite a difference in price between the two sizes. So, I'm choosing 6 X 9.

Anyway, if you use a traditional publisher, they may have their own criterion for size, but if you self-publish, you may want to keep those price considerations in mind. Especially if you want to sell your book.

[TanyaSue]

Tommie Lyn - This is very interesting information! You should post it under the self-publishing discussion too. It's very helpful. THANK YOU for sharing.

[TWitness]

I agree with TanyaSue, Tommie Lyn: the information you've given here is so helpful it should have its own thread. Thanks for being so detailed.

[triprolo]

That's good stuff. Thankyou!!!!