Literary Agents

[lajoyc]

I going to self publish my book and I'm looking for an honest agent to help with promoting the book. I need some advice on what to look for in an agent and any suggestions you may have to offer about agents.

[DrRita]

LaJoyc,

I'm not sure a literary agent will take on a self-publish contract. I think you may be looking for a publicist? Or someone who works with marketing? Agents usually make their cut from contracts with traditional publishing houses (a percentage of the advance and future royalties.)

If you're looking for someone to help you with marketing and public relations, I'm sure there are legitamite ones out there, but honestly--I'm not sure where you can go. I'm sure that one of the many self published authors here can help you.

[kriswrite]

Agents do not promote or market books. They help authors sell books to traditional publishers. It sounds like what you you want is a publicist.

I can't really recommend any, but I can tell you that among the writers I know (mostly long time professionals) it's generally agreed that when it comes to books, spending $ on a publicist is a waste of money. You're better off doing the marketing yourself. There are lots of good books on this subject, includingthe Guerrilla Marketing books ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0618276793/ref=wl_it_dp/002-7960085-0752845?ie=UTF8&coliid=I189MJXW2EOEFE&colid=35LD1O20NC33C ) and You Can Market Your Book ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1932124004/ref=wl_it_dp/002-7960085-0752845?ie=UTF8&coliid=IO0QH31TB4MM5&colid=35LD1O20NC33C )

Best wishes,

Kristina

[DrRita]

Just curious, why are you going the self-publishing route?

[lajoyc]

I have been researching my options on the internet. And most websites say that publishing companies don't like to take chances with new authors. And my novel is only 40865 words. From what I hearing, that's too short for most publishers.

[DrRita]

You'd be better off spending $400-$500 on a well known writer's conference and go with the intent of pitching your novel to an agent or publisher and also get the benefit of networking and learning more about writing than spending considerably more on self-publishing and marketing. At least give it a shot. Honestly, your odds of getting an editor or agent to look at your novel are raised by 1000% when you approach them at a writer's conference.

[gregholmes]

I'd have to agree with the Dr. Rita - don't get caught in the self publishing maze. 40,000 words is a great place to start. I, like you, read as much as I could about publishing and now with two contracts under my belt (not much compared with Kriswrite) but everything I ever read and learned about publishing ended up not being true, at least not completely.

Every author is unique, every book too. I'd suggest spending time looking for good contests that fit the genre of your book too, typically you want the grand prize to be a publishing deal, that's how I got my first book published.

Just some thoughts

[kriswrite]

I agree with what's been said so far. New writers get published every year. Where most new writers fail, though, is in presenting a professional query/book proposal/manuscript. Take your time and study up on how to do these things.

For some advice on which books to study, you could do worse than to check out the "For Writers" section of my website: http://www.kristinaseleshanko.com/ForWriters.htm

Kristina

[ProfessorAlan]

I am not on the self-publishing bandwagon either, though I see a few cases (memoir, non-fiction) where I would consider it.

[kriswrite]

In The Making of A Christian Best Seller ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1932902570?ie=UTF8&tag=vintageconnec-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1932902570 ) there is a chapter on self publishing. Self publisher Carmen Leal says: "The rule of thumb is that if you can sell 1,000 copies in a year and you're not going to borrow money to do so, you are a decent candidate for self publishing."

She goes on to suggest that self publishing is best when your target audience is small, but relatively easy to market to. In her case, people with Huntington's disease. She says 30,000 people have the disease (so the audience is awfully small for a traditional publishing house), and she managed to sell 6,000 copies of her book on the topic.

As someone who self published a book, I think these thoughts are quite sound.

Kristina

[lajoyc]

Kris how well did your book do. Did you have a hard time marketing the book?

[lajoyc]

Is it common to pay a fee for someone to read your proposal?

Have any of you heard of this website? www.christianmanuscriptsubmissions.com

[MGalloway]

You'd be better off spending $400-$500 on a well known writer's conference and go with the intent of pitching your novel to an agent or publisher and also get the benefit of networking and learning more about writing than spending considerably more on self-publishing and marketing. At least give it a shot. Honestly, your odds of getting an editor or agent to look at your novel are raised by 1000% when you approach them at a writer's conference.I agree in principle; but some people are broke and can't always afford the conference fees...this is why I'm still self-publishing through Lulu for the time being. Although I seem to be getting an awful lot of repeat customers after hand-selling my first book to people I knew...which is interesting considering I have a very tiny "marketing" budget.

[lajoyc]

I hear you MGalloway. Some of the conferences that I have seen range from $300 to $1400. How do we know which conferences are worth the money?

[DrRita]

I hear you MGalloway. Some of the conferences that I have seen range from $300 to $1400. How do we know which conferences are worth the money?

Soooo. Tell me, how much do you plan on spending for your publishing deal plus a publicist and/or marketing, traveling? Are you a great sales person? Have you a good track record for selling anything?

I bet you will spend in excess of $650 on your book for starters (and i'm sure it's more than that) and still have to get out there and market like crazy. And it's a rare thing for a new writer with no experience to sell more than a few copies. Most of the people I have talked to who were new (I'm not talking about the seasoned writer with experience under his/her belt) have found it a break even at best (and those were the lucky ones.) Do your research thoroughly.

lajoyc, go to this forum www.absolutewrite.com and check out some of the forums there; especially the Beware and Background checks which is moderated by Victoria Strauss (the guru of scams and preditors). Also check out some of the forums in "The Book World". There is an "Ask the Editor" and an "Ask the Agent" plus some stuff on self publishing.

[Merry]

layjoyc..... (ghostly whisper) '...go to the forum (www.absolutewrite.com) ....follow the good advice....fallloowwww....'

[wgjones3]

*cough*Miss Snark (http://misssnark.blogspot.com/)*cough*

[kriswrite]

ON SELF PUBLISHING:

Out of the 14 books I've had published, I've self published two. The first was the first book I ever wrote, and it was targeted to antique and vintage fashion collectors. It did okay because I had resources to advertise and market directly to that market. Still, I never sold all the copies I had printed. I think I ended up throwing away close to a thousand copies! I did make back my initial investment, though.

The second book I self published was a guide to singing (Singing Secrets: http://voicestudio.kristinaseleshanko.com/SingingSecrets.htm ). I chose to self publish this books because I was passionate about the subject and knew a traditionally publisher would not be able to find a big enough market for the book. This time, I chose to use Print on Demand (POD) at cafepress.com . This was a wise choice, I think, because it allowed me to produce a good quality product without any real monetary investment.

This book has sold reasonably well, and I've made money off it. (I get a percentage of every sale.) At the time I wrote the book, I was teaching singing and was involved in a very active online group about singing. Unfortunately, at about the time the book came out, the online group closed down and I had to stop teaching...so down the drain went most of my marketing ideas. I also didn't have time to market the book much because I was dealing with a difficult pregnancy and the very early birth of my daughter. So I think I could have sold more books had these unfortunate things not happened. Still, I continue to market it, and have even created an eBook version of it (which is nearly 100% profit, since the only cost to me is that of accepting credit cards), which has sold pretty well, too.

ON BOOK PROPOSALS: It is NOT accepted practice for writers to pay someone to read their proposal. Legitimate agents and editors read book proposals, queries, and manuscripts (or at least part of your MS) for free. It's their JOB to find new books.

The only exception to this is Writer's Edge, which, from everything I've heard, is a legitimate way to market your book to a variety of publishers.

ON CONFERENCES: You do not have to attend conferences in order to become a traditionally published author. I've never attended a conference, and I've had many books published. The real key is to present yourself, your query,your proposal, and your manuscript in a professional manner. And fortunately, if you're willing to do your homework, it's easy enough to figure out how to do this.

Kristina

[DrRita]

Good advice Kristina! I think you make a very reasonable and realistic presentation of the self-publishing option. You have done well. As for conferences--of course it's not necessary to get published, many people are without ever attending. My point was that IF you are into spending money, use the money for a more productive return.

[Merry]

Sound advice again. Present yourself well, have a good product and submit to a traditional publisher. Exception: notch or very small market ideas. It sounds like it makes the most sense to research the markets and find out if what your are selling is what they are promoting. Your length of manuscript may not be as important as the content when doing this. If content matches what they are looking for and you are in the ball park for their word counts, then get your proposals and queries ready and submit the thing. And if you can get a conference along the way, call it icing on the cake.

[kriswrite]

I should hasten to make clear that POD publishing through Cafepress.com does not cost anything up front. The author does the book layout and cover, uploads it, and puts it up for sale all at no cost to them. Cafepress tells the author how much the will cost to produce, and the author may price the volume any way he or she likes. When a book sells, the author gets all the money *except* the amount it cost to produce the book.

For example, if the book cost $3 to actually print, and it sells for $6, the author gets to keep $3 and Cafepress keeps $3.

It's important to market the book outside of cafepress.com, though, or you won't make many sales.

Another important point to make: Self publishing works much better for nonfiction than for fiction. There are perhaps exceptions to this...if your novel is set in a specific locale and you know locals will want to support it, for example. But generally, self published novels don't sell well at all.

My point was that IF you are into spending money, use the money for a more productive return.


Dr. Rita, I agree completely!

Kristina

[wgjones3]

I think the best-selling novel on Lulu right now has sold around 5000 copies over the last eighteen months. At least, I read something to that effect a while back but I don't know if it's true or not.

[Merry]

Whoa, that's an awfully small nitch.

[Colleen King]

I have one published book. I chose a publishing company that did a beautiful job on the book, but they expect me to do the marketing myself. They are an on-line company. Initially I sold a few hundred copies. Since then, nothing. Does anyone know how I can correct this mistake? Can I take several copies of my book to a Christian writers' conference and try to find an agent or publisher?

[ProfessorAlan]

We need to differentiate between "publishing" a book and "printing" a book . . . . . .

[tlm]

That would depend on the contract you signed with your publisher. Perhaps you can ask to be released from your contract and try to market your book in another way.

[kriswrite]

5,000 copies of a self published novel is pretty darn good.

Kristina

[tlm]

Colleen,
Do you have a web site?

[gregholmes]

I paid once to use writersedgeservice.com - they claim that not all manuscripts are added to their database that goes to editors and publishers. According to Sally Stuarts book, many Christian Publishers use this service, and only receive manuscripts through them.

My manuscript was accepted, but in 6 months I've gotten no contact back from any publishers or agents. The manuscript that was selected by them however is now published, because of my own efforts.

I wouldn't use the service again, $100 down the tubes, but we learn as we go right.

[Colleen King]

Colleen,
Do you have a web site?

No, I don't have a web site. I'm just starting to realize how far behind I am. I think Christian Writers is going to be good for me. My book was printed in 2001. I have been commissioned to write a chapter for a book being published by Standard Publishing. Other than that, I haven't been writing much lately.

Thanks for all the help.

[MGalloway]

Interesting points.

[tlm]

Colleen,
Did Standard publish your first book?

I wouldn't use the service again, $100 down the tubes, but we learn as we go right.

I wondered about how much that $100 would buy. I almost went for it, too!

[Colleen King]

No, Standard isn't the publisher of my first book. PublishAmerica (all one word) is the "printer" of my book. PublishAmerica calls themselves a publisher, but I guess what they really are is a printing company. This can be confusing for new writers because I found them in the Christian Writers Market Guide under publishers. I still have two years to go on our contract, but it may be possible to break it, I don't know. This is frustrating because many people who have read it have told me they couldn't put it down. One friend said she would prop it up in the kitchen so she could read it while she was cooking. I have been invited to speak at various women's groups because women like the book (it's a "girl" book).

So, I think I might go to a writer's conference sometime soon and see if I can get some help. In the mean time, I just keep writing.

[lajoyc]

The Christian Literary Agent wanted to read my manuscript. I got excited at first until I read that they were on the list for top 10 bad agencies.

[tlm]

PublishAmerica (all one word) is the "printer" of my book.

I fell for the scam, too. I did get out of my contract. We have a thread about them on this site, somewhere.

I, without emotion, simply asked to be released from my contract, without any strings attached. I said I would no longer promote my book. I also said that I would be contacting all the media sources that I had made contract with while promoting my book and tell them I would give them an interview about the scam that PA was running if I did not get a release from my contract. I received a release within 2 weeks.

Other people have been working on a release for years. I don't know why my letter worked. I had sold a lot of books, but all of mine were through bookstores or distributors (so I could get royalties and a discount--the only way I made any money). PA likes to sell to the author alone. They make more money that way. That is why they went from giving a 40% to 20% discount to bookstores--so the bookstores would stop buying any books at all!

Perhaps the bookstore discount and royalties meant they weren't making enough money off of me.

It can't hurt to ask for a release.

[Gravity]

Unfortunately, The Christian Literary Agency is part of Robert Fletcher's ("Bouncin' Bobby" as he's not-so-affectionately known) group of scam agencies. These include The New York Literary Agency, The Screenwriters' Agency, The Children's Literary Agency, and others. The man makes his money from charging fees to writers, and has never sold a book. Stay far, far away.

[lajoyc]

I wish I had known this before I sent them my manuscript. They won't still my work will they?

[TanyaSue]

I don't think there is much point in them stealing your work. They won't make any money that way! You won't be paying them to print it and you won't be marketing it, which means they won't sell any books. They need you to make it successful.

[Gravity]

I wish I had known this before I sent them my manuscript. They won't still my work will they?

No, Bobby won't steal it. He'd have no idea what to do with it even if he did.

[lajoyc]

I got my hopes up for nothing. They were the first to respond in my search for an agent. I did become a little suspicious when they responded to my poorly written synopsis of my book.

[tlm]

Beware! Many sharks swim in these waters!

[Mitch Haynie]

I have a non-fiction project well underway which is currently at about 40,000 words and looks to be well over 100,000 by completion. I have one published work that the church I was serving handled for me so I did not have to go through the standard publishing vs. self, find an agent delima when it came to publishing.

My project should appeal to a broad audiance and so I am really seeking some advice on how to proceed with getting it published. I would love to find an agent who would take on my work but I am a complete novice at this and an unknown as far as an author.

I do have a well published author who is critiquing my book, as well as, my Pastor with a Doctorate degree and a number of others whom w I trust and will be very honest with me.

HELP! Please

Because of Him
Mitch

[gregholmes]

Mitch - sounds like you already have a great start...the best is to get Sally Stuarts Christian Market Guide, and look for agents, or publishers who fit your genre...the best is to research who/what works best for you.

Do you have a website? I'd be interested in reading more about you.

[TanyaSue]

Mitch - Can the "well-published author" critiqueing your book help? It sounds like you've got some great resources already in hand. That's where I would start. Then, like Greg said, do your research. (I posted a similar response to your inquiry on another thread.)

[Mitch Haynie]

I appriciate your encouragement and input. I am probably going to have a ton more questions.

I am currently working to get our website up, should be within the next week or so. It is thetylerproject.org and will have a lot info about our ministry, as well as, bios for my wife and I etc..

In the mean time, feel free to ask away, I will be happy to tell you more about me. Don't know that I am all that interesting but it is amazing what God can do with your story!

I look forward to building friendships here and getting to know you and others as well. I consider you to be one of my friends Greg, after all God called us His. Thanks for your help, I look forward to talking with you more.

[DrRita]

Writer's conferences are the best source of knowledge, help, agents, publishers and networking you can find. As for preparing for an agent or publisher, you need to write a BOOK PROPOSAL. No agent or publisher will even look at your manuscript with out the proposal. There are tons of resources out there on writing one. It will give you a great introduction in the business of writing for publication.

[kriswrite]

Mitch~

Since you're starting out with very little knowledge about how the business of publishing works, I suggest that you read, read, read about it. Here are some suggested books:
http://www.kristinaseleshanko.com/ForWriters.htm

Best wishes,

Kristina

[hannahjoy]

What about eBooks? is there a disadvantage to not going the traditional route? I've not been published, but was thinking of that option when the time comes.

[kriswrite]

We've discussed self publishing pros and cons at length in this thread, and in the thread titled "Book Publishers" in the Lounge. I think this link shoudl take you to the latter: http://christianwriters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8888

Kristina