What do you do about violencein stories, where it is required?

[Blue Moon]

personally this worries me as I intend to write about great epic wars so what should I write or not write, any thoughts?

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Don't be overlly graphic but don't sugar-coat the violence either. Get the point of your story across. Some implied violence (if well written) is far more powerful than anything else. But I think there is room for both. I have a fair bit of violence in my novel (not just for the sake of it) but to get a point across. It is violent, but not overly so (really graphic).

[Blue Moon]

Thanks your words have helped me out greatly and I htink I'll write it down. now what about when you want battles to be sad or happy ye still a great and epic war. and how do you avoid themes. any thoughts?

[illuminati]

My $0.02...

If you're writing an Epic War novel, there WILL be grapic parts. I guess it all depends on the execution of the scene and the effect that you wish to instill on the reader. You can show them bashing each other's brains in, or you can show the aftermath; the thousands of bodies strewn all over the place. How many people die? That would mean the difference between your survivors walking away or sloshing through blood.

The Bible also has some extremely graphical depictions of violence. My suggestion is that you write the story the way your gut tells you to write it. Your agent will then tell you where to cool it down and where you can get away with what.

Once again... that's just my humble opinion... stick to your gut!

[Blue Moon]

thanks illuminati I think your advice is good, and I thank your for it.

Do you guys know how to do it though, any experience or suggestions, or those bible references as I would love to read them, I mean the bible is the best, so do you know where they are? other then that how do you think a battle could be made sad, or happy as I need to do this.

[illuminati]

Unfortunately I have to go home now, but I'll mail you the verses tomorrow morning (well... morning for me at least) ;)

'till then... keep writing!

[tainted]

I'm sorry, I guess I don't really understand what you mean by making the battle "sad or happy".

As for violence in the Bible, there are lots and lots of instances. Sodom being destroyed. The flood (killing almost every living creature on the earth). Samson a) killing 1000 or whatever with the jawbone of a mule, and b) knocking down the pillars to kill his enemies. Shadrach and his gang being thrown into the furnace. The crucifiction scene is extremely violent. The new testement and old are filled with beheadings, stonings, war, suicide, murder (in the first five chapters of the Bible, Cain kills Abel, and God destroys the worlds population with a flood!). In fact, I think you might be hard pressed to find a book of the bible that did not have violence in it.

Hope this helps :)

[Blue Moon]

Thanks Tainted, what I mean is how do you have a battle going on while during this they are sad, or frightened or happy as I canonly think of having it seem like a scary moment. So any suggestions?

[illuminati]

Example 1:
2 Kings 2
2:23
He went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, "Go away, baldhead! Go away, baldhead!"
2:24
When he turned around and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.



Example 2:
2 Kings 9:33-37 (New International Version - UK)
33 Throw her down! Jehu said. So they threw her down, and some of her blood spattered the wall and the horses as they trampled her underfoot.

34 Jehu went in and ate and drank. Take care of that cursed woman, he said, and bury her, for she was a king's daughter.

35 But when they went out to bury her, they found nothing except her skull, her feet and her hands.

36 They went back and told Jehu, who said, This is the word of the LORD that he spoke through his servant Elijah the Tishbite: On the plot of ground at Jezreel dogs will devour Jezebel's flesh.

37 Jezebel's body will be like refuse on the ground in the plot at Jezreel, so that no-one will be able to say, 'This is Jezebel.'




Example 3:
Judges 3:16-30 (New International Version - UK)
20 Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his summer palace and said, I have a message from God for you. As the king rose from his seat,

21 Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly.

22 Even the handle sank in after the blade, which came out of his back. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it.

23 Then Ehud went out to the porch; he shut the doors of the upper room behind him and locked them.

24 After he had gone, the servants came and found the doors of the upper room locked. They said, He must be relieving himself in the inner room of the house.

25 They waited to the point of embarrassment, but when he did not open the doors of the room, they took a key and unlocked them. There they saw their lord fallen to the floor, dead.



This is but three examples...

[illuminati]

Blue Moon... what you're talking about is stakes. You can have a war with thousands of people fighting and killing each other and I wouldn't give a hoot. Take that same war and zoom in on one character and his emotions. Whatever happens, this character simply cannot afford to die. He carries the secret that will win them the war. On top of that, he just found out via his superiors that his wife gave birth to his only son. If he dies, the war will surely be lost and his son would grow up fatherless.

In comes a bullet that rips through his leg and he goes down. Confused and angry, he tries to crawl for a safer spot. An explosion near him bursts his eardrums and causes his nose to bleed, yet he crawls on, for he simply cannot die. Bullets zip by in the background. The only sound he can hear is the thumping of his heart. Somewhere in the distance people scream and fall. He tries to focus his reeling mind and suddenly everything stops.

He can see nothing but the two boots in front of him. He hears nothing but the voice of his crying baby in his head. Slowly his gaze moves up and rests on the barrel of the gun aimed at his head. The soldier says something, but he doesn't hear. The baby cries. Then a deafening explosion as the gun goes off...

On this level you have an emotional involvement with a character. He can't die and you don't want him to die. But the situation depicts that this is inevitable. Now he may or may not die. That's up to the author. You.

The above example would, of course, be written in 1st or 3rd person, depending on the storyteller. The higher the stakes, the more you can play with anger, fear, joy, etc.
If he dies, it's sad. If he lives, the reader will share his relief and joy. On a personal level like this you can play with feelings. It's a bit harder if you want to make a whole platoon happy.

War as such is scary and thus you can't really make the guys happy. So how to make your troops happy? Well, one way would be to give them a specific thing WITHIN the war that's not the war itself that they can be happy about. Imagine fighting against a new type of tank that's indestructible. For months they battle these machines, but to no avail. Now imagine one day accidentally stumbling upon the secret to destroying them? Think Independence Day... think War of the Worlds.

Hope this endless babble helps somewhat...

[Blue Moon]

Hey Illuminae would you mind if usedall or portions of the example you gave in my story and writing practices. If you don't that would be great, if you do that is still a great little bit of writing you did there and I still thank you.

I didn't think of that, I thought the way to set it up was the setting like in the romanic style of writing.
The battle began, the troops stood before the battlefield. A deep fear was growing in he pit of their stomachs, they trembled and quaked before their foe. This day a certain soldier held no fear inside his heart, instead he felt worry his mind raced of the loss of his wife holding their newborn in her hands.

So what do you think did I do alright. any others think I did ok.

[illuminati]

No probs, Blue Moon. Keep the writing and change it as you wish. If it helps you in any way, great! :)

About the soldiers... I don't know if fear would be what they would experience as they stand there, waiting for the battle cry that would lead them to certain death. These guys are mostly brain-washed by years of propoganda. They feel indestructable. If not, they would never run right at an aimed rifle or slashing sword. The time you would most probably experience fear is when you're on the losing side. When you realize that you're outnumbered 1000 to 1. Your army didn't start the war. You're merely defending your city or country from being overrun by the cruel dictator standing not too far away. Think of the movie Troy and how those soldiers felt, knowing that not only were they outnumbered, but they had Achilles, the unbeatable warrior fighting against them!

But if you want to go with the wife just giving birth option, you might want your army numb from all the brainwashing. They stand tall and brave, believing the garbage their leaders shoved down their throats. Your guy is the only nervous soldier in the unit because of his wife. It's suddenly as if his eyes have opened and he can see the futility of the situation that he is in. He tries to find a way out, but realizes that he most probably won't, and that this day would only end in his death.

Imagine knowing that the end is near and you try to warn everyone around you but they just shrug and move on with their lives. That's how this soldier must feel.

So what you have to do is to make the situation as terrible for your poor soldier as you possibly can. And then you make it even worse. You do this because when he survives it all, the reader experiences the emotions that the soldier does. And that's what you need to aim for in your writing: reader emotion.

"But that's just me and I might be wrong" - Tyler Durden

[illuminati]

Homework:
Before you begin writing your scene, go to the nearest video store and rent yourself The Kingdom of Heaven as well as The Last Samurai. While watching the battle scenes, do the following:
1) Try to feel what the main character feels. See if you can live the moment with him
2) Think of how you would have described the scene if YOU had written the story

After the movies, go to your computer, take a deep breath, close your eyes and allow yourself to BECOME the character. Only THEN, do you start writing...

[Blue Moon]

Thank you for your advice, you are truly a good source for this stuff.

Now let me explain the average Starseed Warrior. You do not choose to go into the War, you are chosen. Once they have prayed and recieved conformation, you are allowed to enter.

Before I continue let me explain the reason for this. You (the guy) are not simply facing a mere human, you are facing demons. Bred into a slavery mindset built genetically for war you (the demon) are 10 feet tall (average) and 600 pounds (also aerage) you are raised by power and desolation trained for nothing but war.The very purpose of your life is slaughter, your only freedom is power.
Now imagine if you will, being one man fully equipped before the might of 10,000 demons and you and your 100 freinds are expected to win.

Most are trained to the edge of human capacity (humans) for this reason you are a force. Then you are trained again for the sole purpose of being flawless, then you are allowed out of the academy. Once on the battle field you are trained to destroy fear and terror to stand as a light of unimaginable power. Then your are sent to the front lines. No brainwashing needed, either you are strong enough or you are not. If you are not, pick another field of work.

But that is just the average Starseed Warrior, what do you think?

[illuminati]

Interesting idea you've got there. Problem is that if 100 of my buddies and I are expected to win against 10 000 demons, it doesn't make for much tension now, does it? It would be like watching someone play Doom with godmode activated, blasting demons all over the show. Not very exciting stuff because if you're that good and there's no fear, there's no reason for the reader to care about your characters.

Here's a suggestion which you don't have to use. Make your soldiers these meanies as long as they're wearing a certain type of futuristic body armour. The armour is linked up to a central computer at HQ that controls the indestructability of the suit itself. You still have to be an excellent warrior, but without the armour and the central computer managing it, you're still pretty mortal.

Now imagine sending these 100 super soldiers into the battle. They wipe out about 2 000 of these demons when something goes horribly wrong at HQ and the super computer that runs the suits goes down.

You now have 100, although brilliant, stranded soldiers. They are surrounded by these demons and there appears to be no way out alive. You can now focus the rest of the book on 5 or so main characters and their struggle to survive this war. Obviously only one or two will survive at the end. Because you have 5 main characters, the readers won't know who will live and who won't. This will keep the suspense high throughout the entire story. Your job as the author would be to keep the reader caring about those five individuals. If they don't; you fail.

So give your guys something to try and survive for. You've got the one with the wife and the baby...

Anyways, I don't know what you aim to do with the story, but the above is just a suggestion to get your mind going. How it turns out is up to you.

Good luck, soldier!

[Blue Moon]

Well actually the point is that it's nearly impossible to take down 2 or more Demons wihout assistance. That's why when there are 100 vs. 10,000 they all know that not a one of them is coming back alive. When earth is attacked (they call it Homeworld) there are only 100 soldiers who are sent to defend her. Having fled to warn the Sovereignty (not to talk about my story alot) they find this out and realize the Sovereignty is going to let Earth be destroyed.

The first battle described is the 100 s. 10,000 and when the main characters join all (14) of us know that the best we can do is evacuae 1 billion. Earth being a planet of 6 billion at the time.

The thought was that our soldiers were tpo be the greatest army ever deised so that when ous (Main bad Demon General) sends his army those few men were thought to be able to do it. When Earth is Desroyed end of Book 1, we see tha we have lile if any chance of winning the war.

The deep impact is that people begin to leave the war and go home. The Soereignty is searching for a hero and we are they.

[illuminati]

Hmmmm... sounds complicated ;)
My suggestion is that you write the story the way only you could. Worry about fixing it afterward. The most important thing to do now would be to get the story down on paper... all 120 000 words of it :D

L