What does it mean to be a Christian?

[wgjones3]

I'm not talking about 'John 3:16' or any superficial one-sentence answers. I'm talking about real nitty-gritty, rubber-meets-the-road type stuff. Some of the things I'm talking about are:

* What are the characteristics of a real Christian?
* How do you know a Christian when you see one?
* Can you judge whether or not someone is a Christian by just their words?
* Can you judge them by the art they create?
* Is it ever okay for a Christian to question authority?
* Can someone rightfully call themselves a Christian if they show no respect for authority?
* How is Christianity lived out in a world with no respect for God?
* Can we live up to the examples set in the Bible some 2000 years later?
* Have times changed since Jesus gave His commandments?
* Are Paul's teachings out of touch with today's church?
* Is the Old Testament relevant in light of the New Covenant?
* Is the Old Testament applicable to today's church?

Feel free to add to/take away from the discussion what you will. I really just want to open up an honest, deep discussion about what Christianity really means outside the four walls of the church.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

* What are the characteristics of a real Christian?
A follower of Christ. Someone who is a Christian and has a Christ-like attitude. Humble and sacrifices their time/money etc for others, tells people about Jesus. Is willing to accept that they can't get through life on their own and need His saving Grace and Love.

* How do you know a Christian when you see one?
By their love for anyone, no matter their life situations etc. Really caring and care about others when noone else does.

* Can you judge whether or not someone is a Christian by just their words?
Sometimes, but seeing them in action is better proof.

* Can you judge them by the art they create?
Sometimes. We embody some of God's creativity so its only logical that this would happen. Its really what's going on in their soul that counts.

* Is it ever okay for a Christian to question authority?
Yes, if it contradicts the Bible or God. And in a respectful manner but you can question strongly. Other than that you can question God when you are in doubt (in strengthens your faith) but only He has the answers.

* Can someone rightfully call themselves a Christian if they show no respect for authority?
Don't know. Hard question. I guess not. God is authority. A Christian is someone who has accepted what Jesus has done for them through His Grace. Nothing more than that. But in gratitude we should want to be more like Jesus and this means submitting to (good) authority.

* How is Christianity lived out in a world with no respect for God?
Sticking to the Bible, praying, asking God questions, just talking with Him, getting together with other Christians and encouraging and supporting each other. Also telling others about Jesus, helping them and striving to live God's way.

* Can we live up to the examples set in the Bible some 2000 years later?
Only with the Holy Spirit working through us, and us being open to what God wants for us.

* Have times changed since Jesus gave His commandments?
Technology and culture has changed since then but relationships and all the other stuff that matters is still as relevant and important as it was back then.

* Are Paul's teachings out of touch with today's church?
I don't think so. We can learn a lot from his teachings and grow as Christians because of it.

* Is the Old Testament relevant in light of the New Covenant?
It tells about God and what He did for His people. Everything that was done led to Jesus paying for our sins and rising again. The New Testemant is more important, but the Old Testemant is still important.

* Is the Old Testament applicable to today's church?
Yes, except the bits only applying to Levites in Leviticus (eg. two types of cloth can't be worn at once etc). Also how we don't have to sacrifice an animal to draw closer to God and that all can worship Jesus at a personal level. All because He paid the price.

Did that help?

[Hisart]

I'll jump on this one.



* What are the characteristics of a real Christian?
They are filled to overflowing with the love of Jesus. The word 'Christian' means 'Christ-like ones' or 'Little Christs'.

* How do you know a Christian when you see one?
They look like Jesus. To you or I? We would feel Him.

* Can you judge whether or not someone is a Christian by just their words?
Yes and no. A 'backslidden' Christian or a 'Newbie' may have the languge of the world still in their mouth. But an 'On Fire' Christian's talk will be clean and Christ-like.

* Can you judge them by the art they create?
Again yes and no. The backslidden will have parts of their conscience seared and that might be where the scar is. But again the 'On Fire' Christian will be unable to look at or make certain 'Fleshly' art works. My stuff may be un-religious but it's not unGodly.

* Is it ever okay for a Christian to question authority?
Sure. Was Hitler right? Was our 'Founding Fathers' wrong? No to both.

* Can someone rightfully call themselves a Christian if they show no respect for authority?
If the Authority isn't unGodly, then a Christian is to obey. But you can remain saved quite a while in the backslidden state before the knife of John 15 comes.

* How is Christianity lived out in a world with no respect for God?
Same way it was in Rome in the first century, on your knees.

* Can we live up to the examples set in the Bible some 2000 years later?
Yes. God never asks you to do anything that you can't. Now you might not want to, but you can.

* Have times changed since Jesus gave His commandments?
Yes, but His commands haven't.

* Are Paul's teachings out of touch with today's church?
No. They don't have human sacrifices here yet like they did in Rome, so it's not that bad here, yet.

* Is the Old Testament relevant in light of the New Covenant?
It's the shadow of the cross, so yes.

* Is the Old Testament applicable to today's church?
Yes, Jesus came to fulfill the law, not obliterate it.

God Bless!
Hisart :cool:

{Hey W4J, we were typing at the same time. looks like God to me.}

[wgjones3]

Well, I wasn't exactly looking for play-by-play answers to those questions, but so far this thread is getting off toa great start. !thumbsup!

Those are all some things I've heard bantied about time and again, discussed and debated.

[ProfessorAlan]

* What are the characteristics of a real Christian?
None, other than following Christ. However that works out in their life is between them and God.

* How do you know a Christian when you see one?
I used to think so, but I am much more mature now and realize that is silly (to put the kindest adjective to it). The only person whose salvation I am sure of is my own.

* Can you judge whether or not someone is a Christian by just their words?
You can judge how sanctified or mature they are, but not judge salvation. That is fortunately not up to me.

* Can you judge them by the art they create?
The church has always been about 100 years behind in judging art, so I would be pretty nervous about doing so. The artists and musiciand we revere today were often misunderstood by the church and church authority in their time, so I am exceedingly cautious in this area. Matters of taste and aesthetics change over time, and artists are often ahead of their brothers and sisters on this.

* Is it ever okay for a Christian to question authority?
This is a tricky one, because I value questioning authority, it think in the right context it is a very healthy and good thing -- I think more harm has done historically by NOT questioning authoritarian leadership than by being rebellious.

However, navigating the proper role of authority in one's life and church is one of the two areas that I think fell Christians (and the church overall) most often. If we could "get" authority in a Goldilocks sense of not too much and not too little, and we all knew how to properly question authority in a proper way and how to handle being in authority with meekness and grace, we could have a much greater sense of community across the Body.

But to answer the question, "yes."

* Can someone rightfully call themselves a Christian if they show no respect for authority?
"no respect for authority" sounds like code for something that you are driving at -- but if you have a specific question, I'll try to answer it.

* How is Christianity lived out in a world with no respect for God?
I'm not one who thinks that this is the worse time ever to be a Christian, or that the world has less respect for God now than ever before, so I would answer by saying that Christians have always had to do this.

* Can we live up to the examples set in the Bible some 2000 years later?
I don't answer "we" questions, I can only answer "me" questions --- I try to live up to the examples of the Bible in terms of compassion, love, kindness, grace, mercy . . .

* Have times changed since Jesus gave His commandments?
Of course, but the commandments transcend time so that is not an excuse for not following. The specifics of how those commandments are carried out may be different as times change, however. We have to separate out the societal things, which change over time,

* Are Paul's teachings out of touch with today's church?
Again, I think you're driving at something specific, I can't tell what the exact question is.

* Is the Old Testament relevant in light of the New Covenant?
Of course -- Jehovah is our God.

* Is the Old Testament applicable to today's church?
Of course, although the application is very difficult and I would not get hung up over different interpretations in this area.

[Merry]

Wow! Great questions, excellent answers!

[DrRita]

Hey WG
Great thread! I think that some of your questions are thought provoking. As for What it means to be a Christian, one could write volumes on the subject.

It appears your questions fall in the following categories:

Characteristics: The scripture says we have the mind of Christ and have been raised in newness of life with Christ's nature. However, the flesh is still present and accounted for. Philippians 2:5-8 is the Christian standard."let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus. . . " Jesus said in John 15:13 "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends." Humility, love, obedience, self-sacrifice--these are the characteristics of a Christian. Personality has nothing to do with it.

Fruit: As Prof Allen pointed out, we cannot judge the salvation of another but we certainly can be fruit inspectors. We know what a person is by the fruit he/she produces. In Gal 5:22, the fruit of the Holy Spirit is listed. Works are tricky as the parable of the sheep and goats as Matt. 25 illustrates. Fruit is not works and a person of the world cannot produce it, only conterfeit it.

Obedience: In the area of obedience, God always comes first. Authority on this earth is established by God but not always subjected to God's will. The only true authority in a Christian's life is the Holy Spirit. If the Christian submits to the authority and leading of the Holy Spirit, there will be both submission and rebellion to earthly authority. But it will again be marked by humility, love and self-sacrifice.

Theology: This is the area where most of the Church (and world) draw the battle lines. Honestly, unless a person just flat out says that God is God,
Jesus is not the son of God and we do not need Christ's sacrifice to enter heaven, then we should assume that a confession of faith constitutes rebirth. Theology is the worst place to make a call about the salvation/faith of a person. Yes, there are many quirky beliefs out there, some of which are down right unbiblical but we still cannot judge a persons salvation by his/her theology (except for the above absolutes given that person has heard the truth) It's best to try and agree the essential elements trather that fight over on the unessential differences.

Witness: It says in 1 John 1:6 "He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked" How did Jesus walk? In complete and total reliance on God the Father, not in his own strength. If that is the goal, the walk will be Christ-like.

[wgjones3]

Okay, I'm not trying to be super preacher guy here, but I'm already seeing some awesome stuff coming out of all this.

A follower of Christ. Someone who is a Christian and has a Christ-like attitude. Humble and sacrifices their time/money etc for others, tells people about Jesus. Is willing to accept that they can't get through life on their own and need His saving Grace and Love.

Excellent! !thumbsup!

It's the shadow of the cross, so yes.

[...]

Jesus came to fulfill the law, not obliterate it.

I can't tell you how powerful that is. I've been to so many churches where it's preached from the pulpit that the law is dead and the old testament is irrelevant. I've heard preachers say we should throw away the ten commandments because Jesus destroied all that. But what you said is true; Jesus is the fullfillment of the Old Testament. How many times does Paul quote the old testament? Or Jesus either, for that matter?

This is a tricky one, because I value questioning authority, it think in the right context it is a very healthy and good thing -- I think more harm has done historically by NOT questioning authoritarian leadership than by being rebellious.

[...]

"no respect for authority" sounds like code for something that you are driving at -- but if you have a specific question, I'll try to answer it.

Maybe, maybe not. Just some background info, though. My old Sunday School teacher (who would still be my teacher if I hadn't gotten drafted into working A/V) is a lawyer. He's really big on authority. Obviously, he deals with people day in and day out who have no respect for and no value of authority. So my teacher worked up a whole lesson on respecting authority. He even preached it to the church once when my Pastor was away. Basically, it boiled down to the this--lack of respect for earthly authority equates to lack of respect for heavenly authority, and if you don't submit to the first you can't submit to the latter.

My problem is, authorty has to be held accountable. Out of control authority is not something we should submit to. Just ask anyone who remembers what happened in Germany in the '30s. The Bible even gives us examples of rebellion--Shadrack, Meshack, and Abendigo rebelled against their government because it contridicted their God. Moses, Daniel, David... even Jesus rebelled against his "superiors", challenging the church of His day rather than the government.

On the other side of that, having been a good Charasmatic kid for many years, I've seen the whole "I'm walking in grace so I don't need your head trip" mentality. I've seen it go as far as to have preachers having affairs with members of their church because they were sheilded by grace (one even called my pastor, who helped him set his church up, from a motel room with his mistress and said, "How dare you judge me. You don't know anything about the blood."). I've seen people walk out of church because they'd "outgrown" it. I've seen people destroy whole churches because they were "empowered" by God to do thier own thing.

But I've also seen people who didn't go to church because what they found at the churches they went to didn't line up with what they read in their Bible. I'll leave it at that.

Great post Doc.

Come on Merry... I know you've got thoughts on this.

I appreciate everyone who took the time to answer the questions one by one--throw your 2 cents in. Ask some questions of your own. What are some things that bug you? What are some things you really admire in other Christians and don't do yourself? What do you think about feel-good theology that could pass for secular self-help? Is the gospel getting watered down?

I read a post on another site somewhere about how a lot of Christians just don't get it. They try to convince others to accept Jesus without first trying to show them their need for Jesus and how Jesus can fill that need. That's powerful. You think about the woman at the well--Jesus didn't come up to her and say, "I'm Jesus, the Son of God. Believe in me and you'll be saved. Go and sin no more." Yet, I've been around a lot of witnessing in my life that could pass for a third person version of that conversation. But at the well, Jesus sat with the woman. He talked to her, He listened to her. He showed her that He knew her. They had a real conversation. By the time He told her who He was, she was asking Him for Living Waters. He opened her eyes to the need and she went out and told everyone she could find about Him. Wow. I think that's something we could all think about when penning these conversion stories. :)

Okay, and FYI--the two questions about judging Christians by their words and judging them by their art are a little pointed. I had someone tell me recently that they could tell by my work that I'd never been around a good preacher... I just wanted to get throw those questions in to get a discussion going.

[ProfessorAlan]

Basically, it boiled down to the this--lack of respect for earthly authority equates to lack of respect for heavenly authority, and if you don't submit to the first you can't submit to the latter.

My problem is, authorty has to be held accountable.

Yeah, authority is necessary, but we (as humans) do it so poorly :(

[wgjones3]

Yep... which is why we have to rely on God and do that whole 'walk by faith and not by sight thing'. Only God could have come up with that.

[BrotherDave]

Whether I feed the poor,
Give all I have,
speak with the tounges of angels,
and heal and ressurect eveyone I can lay my hands on,
I could be anything, call myself anything,
but am I a Christian?

Only if Christ I am in.

And I can be all kinds of crazy
and all kinds of out wack
as Itry to figure out how to walk in God's grace.
The world may not like me,
and I may not be your religious cup of tea,
but...

As long as Christ I am in
I am a Christian.

Only if Christ I am in.

brotherdave