Is Publish America for real?

[writingwoman]

I was thinking of submitting a manuscript to Publish America. Do any of you know of good
or bad things about the place. I thought the webstite looked Okay. :confused:

Hope to hear from you :D !thumbsup! :cool:

[BrotherDave]

Remember the standard rule. If they ask for money upfront: be afraid. be very afraid.

[DrRita]

Writingwoman,
There is plenty of info on this very credible site Absolute Write. I've provided the link below:

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=524&page=1&pp=25

I warn you, it's huge but there has been an index created for it so you can browse the subjects. Check it out.

[Bill Snodgrass]

Publish America is dangerous!

http://anotherealm.com/prededitors/pebp.htm

http://www.sfwa.org/beware/general.html#PA

[Naomi Musch]

Hmm,
I am published by PublishAmerica and am very satisfied. They USED TO be a self-publishing company, and still retain many of the characteristics of a self-publishing company. (I think they're sort of a hybrid somewhere in between.) They will edit, but only a little, so YOU have to take responsibility for the content. It's your baby, so why expect someone else to clean it up? They were fast, easy to work with, and as for book pricing, POD is the technology, and that makes the book expensive whereever you go. I work in a book store and ALL POD books are expensive. It's the nature of the beast. Still, surprisingly, it sells. It is hard to get any POD book onto shelves, no matter who you use (if you are self-publishing for instance) because the stores don't get much of a discount and they can't always return POD books. I looked at some of the sites listed in the previous postings that give dire warnings, but these problems with POD books are not limited to PA. They go for ANY self-publisher. There are hundreds of thousands of new books published every year. They aren't going to put anyone's on the shelf if they don't have a good reason to. Again, that's the nature of the beast. Does PA sell lousy books? Sure. Some shouldn't be published, but I've read some pretty lousy books by the big time publishers too, some I can't even say were well-written. I just don't think that in the world of POD that it is ultimately the publisher's job to make your words glow. At least in the secular world.
Still, my novel is published, my readership is growing and giving me excellent feedback, (remember, I didn't depend on PA's editing but like bro. Dave said, I read it until I was blind) I haven't spent a thing, the book looks great, and what more can I say? I have closure without cost. It's a great feeling. I'm going to try "the big guys" with my next book, but if I don't find success, I'd us PA again. I'll let you know if I change my mind a year from now.
Naomi Musch
"The Casket Girl"
www.naomimusch.com

[lindenbooks]

It depends on your expectations. The two biggest downsides to Publish America are that they charge an extra high price for your books, and most brick and mortar chains won't carry PA's titles--there are rare exceptions, such as if you know a bookstore owner personally, but generally, this is the case. If your customers don't mind the price, and you're not primarily looking to sell to the widespread market, it can be a good route to go.

[BrotherDave]

Expectations and goals.

In hope that you become big and famous you can sell your manuscript to a large commerical publisher. Very few writers make it here. Even if a publisher picks you up you prob won't make money unless you take on the name Stephen King.

In hope that you can gain just money you can become a popluar speaker and self publish your books and offer them for sale outside your speaking venue. Lots o' dough here, but you have to be able to draw a crowd.

IF you just want entertain your friends or give them an important message you can self publish and just hand out books. You make no money this way, but you may gain more friends.

brotherdave

[lindenbooks]

Exactly, Brother Dave. It isn't so easy any more as it was for Jo March in Little Women; writing out her thoughts in ink on parchment, tying it up with a piece of twine, and having it delievered directly to a publisher. Just because the interest with writers ALWAYS comes down to this--what do I do with what I write?--HERE'S (http://morethanastory.org/a-history/) a link that tells what I did. It's just one of the options. And as with anything, it comes down to attitude, and for Christians; whatever goals God has specifically for you.

[BrotherDave]

glad you share that. That was quite aggresive of you. Most of us quite after the first rejection.
Instead of quiting after each rejection, and almost dieing over the cost of self puplishing, I went to Lulu. cheap, reliable. Fits my present fields of goals.

brotherdav

[lindenbooks]

Nothing wrong with that. I'm glad Lulu is working for you. I do seem "agressive," as you say, but my bravery quivers each time I do what Peter did; take my eyes of Jesus for one second. Rejection abounds, but so does grace!

[htack210]

I made the sad mistake of publishing once with Publish America. I will not do that again! Their books are overpriced, the "editing" they promise extands only so far as formatting your work for printing, and despite their hype, PA is NOT a traditional publisher. They are an author mill. Also, contrary to what they say, most bookstores will not accept PA books, and PA does not help you with marketing, although they would like for you to believe otherwise. I am sorry to be so negative, :( but I want to spare you much grief.

[lindenbooks]

Personally, I agree with what you say about PA--but I also have to allow that there is a small percentage of authors that feel good about the product PA gives them. As a publisher myself, I know that PA has no right to hold writers under contract. They could just as easily provide the service they provide without doing this. I believe, however, at some point that their policy will by necessity change. There are just too many complaints.

[htack210]

You make a good point, lindenbooks. I guess I just have a strong reaction to PA because of my own bad experience with them. The website promises big hopes, but PA fails to deliver.

[lindenbooks]

I understand. The higher you fly, the farther you can fall. If an author doesn't expect too much, what PA lacks won't hurt too much. I do believe you're in the majority; many authors have been disappointed with PA because of how they word things. They seem to "promise" a lot.

[Benji2]

I never found that they promised more than they delivered. I did learn that I'm not equipped to make up for what they lacked. I have two books through PA. I make more in freelance or ghostwriting jobs in a week than I've made with both books combined. The books look great and were critically acclaimed, but the price is too high and while they now have a full return policy on books, most stores are still smarting from PA purchases that didn't sell in the past.

If you are good at self marketing, PA might be a good route. Sadly, I'm not very good at it.

That doesn't stop me from writing - I'm putting my wife through a Master's program with my writing, so that's good enough for me.

[BrotherDave]

You are actually putting your wife through college on your writing income? That's amazing! I maybe getting published in freelance 2 or 3 times a year. My little commissions go right back in to the writing.

How do you manage to make enough money to pay for anything?

Is there a key? Sure would like to know.

brotherdave

[carlsonl]

One thing that you might look at is their percentage of acceptances to rejections. When I finished my first novel, I sent it to them. They said they were interested in publishing it, but I knew I had to investigate the market more, so I decided to decline their offer. I'm really glad I did. My first novel was pitiful. It was full of POV slips, time jumps, and far too much summarization. You might try looking at Publish America;s site, writing down a bunch of titles, and then go to Amazon. See if you can get a ranking on the titles. One last note: I heard that the Washington Post did an article on PA about a year ago. Last year, PA published over 10,000 titles. Yikes!

[Benji2]

I used to write only articles that held interest for me in a writing style that was in effect my voice.

I've discovered my voice has uses but not broad enough for sustained freelance work.

So, I entered the ghost writing, content writing and conformable style writing that has aided me in helping to offset the costs associated with my wife's graduate courses.

Some might say that's denying who I am as a writer, but I do make sure I can write in my own voice enough that I am satisfied with the overall thrust of my writing.

[BrotherDave]

That's cool!
I'll take the money and hide my voice for a while.
What is "conformable style writing"?

[Benji2]

Particularly in content writing there is an accepted style and voice in writing that you must be able to duplicate. If you can, you stand a better chance of gaining the assignment, if you get hung up on "that's not my style" there are so many other fish in the pool ready to bite.

When you work well with the needs of a client they are more likely to use you again when a project comes up.

[Benji]

Hey look, the 2 has gone away and the avatar is here again. It's good to be me again.

Bye-bye Ben 2. :)

[lindenbooks]

"I did learn that I'm not equipped to make up for what they lacked."

This is the best way to put it. It's what I've discovered; most authors don't take the time or trouble to read and reread PA's contract. The misunderstanding comes with taking what the contract "sounds like" as a promise. They do put their limitations as a publisher into black and white, but it's so skillfully worded that it comes across gray. It's what I said at the beginning of this thread; if your expectations aren't too high, and your customers don't mind paying a higher price for your books, then at least PA gives you a product. I will continue to assert that PA shouldn't hold the authors under contract. And I'm with you; marketing is the hard part.

[wgjones3]

Hey look, the 2 has gone away and the avatar is here again. It's good to be me again.

Bye-bye Ben 2. :)

Welcome back. Good to see you 'round these parts again. !thumbsup!

[Benji]

Thank you, Mr. Jones.

Kind of in between things right now, and I remembered quite fondly the interaction I had here in former times. Thought the prodigal might at least drop by for a bit before heading off for some pig food for lunch.

I got the tenth book in the textbook series done and I'll start 11-15 in the spring. I have also queried a publisher that may want my fourth book, but it would start as a serial in a magazine first (if they accept it). We'll see.

Good to see some familiar names. Lots of new ones too - woo hoo!

[David Cristwell]

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged" Matthew 7:1

My experiences with PublishAmerica have been quite positive. "Auroraview, Alaska" was just released, but I put the success of my book squarely in God's hands, for that is where it is regardless, and I trust in Him to take care of things. I have faith that He will.
The glory shall be His.

David

[David Cristwell]

Replying to my own message, I do confess to being irritated enough about their not letting me have permission to make ONE hardcover copy of the book for a keepsake that I contemplated re-writing the story, changing the names, location, and plot slightly, and then copyrighting the "new" story and publishing it under another name.

I then realized that their unwillingness to allow this (I even gave them the opportunity to print it. They said 50 minimum) was just a stumbling block designed to shake my faith.

When they accept the sequel, I will negotiate for the hardcovers or permission to do it myself. The sequel is twice as good as the first story, so I am confident that it will be accepted. While most of the support team there has been really great, there are a few that aren't happy, helpful people. When I get a reply from those, I have wondered if it's not really David Spade doing his "NO" Capitol One commercial.

[lindenbooks]

It is what I assert about PA; they can do what they do without putting their authors under contract. Anyone that publishes with them should still own their work; be able to do as they like. You're right; the discouragement this causes can be a stumbling block, and I believe that's what the other CW member that commented negatively was referring to.

[love2write]

There is so much information on the internet regarding Publish America. I wish there had been when I signed with them. I have since gotten my contracts with them terminated, thank God.

Preditors & Editors: http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/pebp.htm - 26k

The Frederick News Post Article: PA’s Hometown Newspaper: (I live in Frederick and can tell you PA does not have a good reputation in town.) http://www.lisamaliga.com/fredericknewspost.htm

Making Books / The Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A25187-2005Jan20

Rip Off Report, Publish America House of Publishing Rip Off: Misleading and Deceptive Trade Practices Frederick Maryland:http://www.badbusinessbureau.com/reports/ripoff104646.htm

Publish America Sting: Acceptance of the worst book ever written. http://www.critters.org/sting/

Alerts for Writers from Writers Beware / The Great Publish America Hoax: http://www.sfwa.org/beware/general.html - PA

The Truth About Publish America FAQ: http://www.freewebs.com/truthaboutpa/faqs.htm

WNBC / Publishing On Demand Can Cause Problems: http://www.wnbc.com/askasa/4124957/detail.html

The Only Thing You Need to Know About Publish America: http://www.steelypips.org/miscellany/publishamerica.html


The Neverending Publish America Thread: http://p197.ezboard.com/fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessage?topicID=209.topic

A Writer’s Life: http://leegoldberg.typepad.com/a_writers_life/2004/12/more_on_publish.html

On Publish America: http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/writing/pa.html

Authors' Allegation: Nothing Patriotic About Publish America I / Publishers Weekly

http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA480782.html

[lindenbooks]

I know all about this. I had done my research at writers.net at the beginning of my writing venture. I am soft on PA only for the authors' sakes; some people are just happy to have a bound version of their story in their hands, and have friends and colleagues that are happy for them. Nothing wrong with that. However, an author who wants to be able to market their book and be recognized as an author in the various venues ought to beware. Again: Publish America could do what they do without taking the author's rights, like Lulu and Cafepress.

By the by: How did you get out of your contract?

[love2write]

Hi Dave,
About getting out of my contracts.

Publish America sent me an 'amendment to the contract', which really was a new contract supposedly making my connection with them non-exclusive. It was in reality a new contract. I showed it to a literary attorney and he strongly recommended I not sign it. It included a 'gag clause' which was rediculous, stating I, nor my family members, nor employees, lawyer, etc. could say anything disparagingly against PA and that they would charge $5000 for every incident. It also left it up to them if another publisher wanted to pick up my book whether to negotiate. It was so restrictive and crazy. The lawyer called it bogus and not according to standard industry practices.

I politely declined to sign it. I informed PA that I no longer could afford to purchase my own books nor market them. They sent me letters of release right away.

Now I have my books back and I am rewriting them, and plan to submit them elsewhere. Meanwhile I finished another novel and a literary agent is reviewing it. I am moving on. All I can say is if you want a career as an author, stay away from this company. There are too many roadblocks to success. I also felt, as a Christian, I could no longer do business with a company like this.

[lindenbooks]

Hi, Rita: It was me, Cami, that asked -- but I understand the forum confusion! ; )

So, after getting the bogus re-negotiated contract, all you had to do was tell them that you weren't going to buy or market your books, and they released you? Was the release in contract form?

[love2write]

Hi Cami,

Sorry about that.

Yes, that's what I did. They did not send me a release contract. What they sent were letters of release. Made it easy.

I know of other authors who have refused to sign and they were denied a release. I know some who requested releases and were given them or refused. It's hard to say, why PA chooses to let some go and not others. But they are counting on authors buying books, and if that is cut off, and your sales are not bringing them in any money they seem more apt to let people go.

Are you seeking one?

Check out the Absolute Write forum. There is a thread about this contract and other information.

[lindenbooks]

Thanks for the information, Rita. I know this will serve to be a helpful thread.

I settled on becoming a publisher myself, actually. You can read about it HERE (http://morethanastory.org/a-history/).

Hope to bump into you again soon; I'm glad you got released from your contract, for whatever reasons!

[David Cristwell]

I appreciate the info. I might not sign "The Bush Pilot's Daughters" with PA at the moment. In praying for guidance, I have been led here. I consider my creativity in writing a gift to use in the Lord's work.

Considering I sold a business that I was successful at for a loss in order to save my marriage, and a few years later was injured on the job (with the post office) and denied both Worker's Comp and Social Security (the other big lie), I am limited to my wife's income, and a pittance here and there. (nobody wants to hire a Worker's Comp claim waiting to happen) That comes from working on computers for people (by word of mouth), which I find myself less able to do with my kees getting worse, and my self-published "how-to" CD on ebay. With that I have probably made more from in 2 years than I will total with PA royalty.

Thus I need someone to publish for me who believes that the Lord can move on people's hearts to buy, enjoy, and look for a sequel to my works. without having to cough up thousands of dollars and have half the garage occupied by unsold books. Then again, perhaps "Auroraview, Alaska" did reach it's intended target already, and just perhaps changed the hearts of some of the PA staff.

It is that sort of book in that you don't buy it for a Christian book, you buy it to be entertained by the adventure, and get caught up in the faith aspect of it well into the second chapter and later. It is the sort of book for an average person, with average faith (which isn't much) that like the characters come to see that with a LOT of faith, God can work wonders in our lives.

My idea of success would be when they finish the book, if not before then, for the readers to say, "Lord, it is time you and I had a talk."

In spite of my job related setbacks, God has blessed us with all that we NEED. My wife of 29 years was healed of Ovarian Cancer (the least curable female cancer) three years ago. One doesn't have stage 3 cancer and two weeks later NONE without God's intervention. Beyond that, I have to ask myself at what point is wanting more coveting, or is it pride? That is the root of many grievous sins.

Thus said, I shall leave the first story in God's hands, and write a new, even more spiritually moving one.

Thanks,
David

[lindenbooks]

Wow, thanks for sharing that, David; lovely testament of God's grace, provision and healing. As far as wanting more is concerned, I think of an admonition I heard years ago: "An ungrateful heart will lead to all forms of sin." Keeping a grateful heart to God our Father and Provider, the Author of our creativity, will keep us from grumbling over how our work is or is not viewed by others.

I want to make it very clear that I do not project PA onto its authors. There are good authors that have gone with PA. The problem is, what PA seems to promise but can't deliver under their current policies usually ends up disappointing most of them. Yes, you get a product with an ISBN number, but then what? You can't get them into the bookstores 99% of the time. And not everyone wants to get their books into the bookstores--but just in CASE you ever wanted to, it's nice to know the option is there.

Finding a publisher is hard in this glutted industry. That's why I chose to do it all myself. It would have been just as hard finding the literary agent, etc, etc--but after I did my research, publishing looked best for what I had the desire for. And the best desires are those God places within our hearts. Nehemiah said, "If God directs a man's steps, how then can that man know his own way?" Step by step obedience.

Cami

[love2write]

David,
Go back to my post in this thread and check out the links I posted. There is enough information about this scam publisher to make any writer run. When I signed with PA this information was not out there yet. I wish it had been because I would have not signed with them if I had known.

You deserve better. Send your query out to agents and find one to represent your work and have it ligitamately published. I recommend the book 'Your Novel Proposal, from creation to contract', if you have written fiction. It is the best book I've read regarding submissions.

Some updated information: This past week several authors have had their rights reverted from Publish America after requesting releases from their contracts. You can read about it at Absolute Write Message board.

Also, on Sally Stuart's market guide website, she is taking Publish America off her list of publishers.

[CindyLee]

If you don't mind designing your own cover (I did mine on microsoft publisher) and laying out your own manuscript (msword... under page setup: use the bookfold option...) You can "publish" it yourself...

check out the rates at this printing house....
www.instantpublisher.com

However, there is no "distribution" network beyond what you your self can create, but I have yet to hear about a POD press that provides a legitimate distribution package. It's usually completely up to the author to sell his/her own product!

[David Cristwell]

Surprise, surprise. PA "accepted" my second novel, "The Bush Pilot's Daughters" today. They may rethink when they see the terms I want added to the contract. That is when I let them know they are not the only show in town.

I will let everyone know if they agree to letting me produce hardcover copies independently, electronic, or CD based books, (which my attorney's son managed to retain) and have input on the retail price of the finished books. If they wish for my business, they will make an effort to satisfy the customer, which is apparently me, and not John Q. Public. Satisfying the customer is the cornerstone of any business (except Microsoft who relies on controlling a monopoly).

[love2write]

Ask for a $500 advance, 10 copies of your book, that they send review copies to the New York Times and Washington Post Book World, that they up the discount of their return policy to the standard 40% off to bookstores, and have the major chains stock it, and price your book to what other books your size are selling for, that the contract is for a standard three years, that they give you the option of nullifying the contract, and then see what happens.

I hate to differ with Cindy Lee, but if you are serious about getting your book into the hands of readers work to get an agent to market your book to publishers. It is worth the wait for a commerical publisher. You should not have to pay to be published.

[CindyLee]

I don't disagaree with you, Rita. My suggestion about self-publishing is only a last resort when you've honed it as tight as you think it can possibly be, and then some, you've queried every agent and editor in the book and have nothing but rejections to show, but you still feel that your work has merit and you think that it's important to get it into print.... that's when you consider self-publishing.

[David Cristwell]

Thanks for the input. You have all given me diferent options. Do literary agents work on commission or the job?

Instead of the standard year, they want 2 years to produce the book. Obviously to see if I buy enough of the first one to make it worthwhile. I told them that fall was fine, but not 2 years.

I wonder how often the publisher gets a rejection slip? !thumbsup!

[love2write]

I agree with you, too, Cindy.

Back to PA. Here is a public statement made by Phil Dolan, an author who recently won arbitration against PA. This should make anyone considering signing with them throw their contract in the trash. Oh, and in addition to this, some authors who have asked for a reversion of rights (their contracts terminated) were sent release contracts with a gag clause, stating that PA could take fine them $5000 for every instance where the author, his family, employees, attorney, agent, etc. said something against them.
__________________________________________________ ____________________

From Phil Dolan:

I was a PA author. PA took a number of negative actions re my book, A Handsome Guy, and my extensive promotion of it and I was forced to file for arbitration under the contract.

I won the arbitration. PA had breached their contract and the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing a number of times.

Their loss to me and what they did to cause the arbitration is not sour grapes or PA bashing. It is the truth.


This is the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing:

The PA contract contains the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing. This covenant is a general assumption of the law of contracts, that people will act in good faith and deal fairly without breaking their word, using shifty means to avoid obligations, or denying what the other party obviously understood. A lawsuit (or one of the causes of action in a lawsuit) based on the breach of this covenant is often brought when the other party has been claiming technical excuses for breaching the contract or using the specific words of the contract to refuse to perform when the surrounding circumstances or apparent understanding of the parties were to the contrary.


None of this is in your story about PublishAmerica. Don't you want to print the truth?

Why don't you print my public statement regarding the arbitration for your readers?


In May 2005, Phillip Dolan of Lee's Summit, Missouri filed a demand for
arbitration against PublishAmerica LLLP, a Maryland publisher with whom Dolan had signed a
publishing agreement in December 2003 for a manuscript titled, A handsome Guy. Dolan asserted
that PublishAmerica had breached the publishing agreement by:

Failing to make the book actually available in bookstores, or indeed
even available with major on-line booksellers

Impeding Dolan's efforts to market the book

Inaccurately reporting royalties due on the few copies actually
provided to customers

Refusing to allow Dolan's accountant access to PublishAmerica's books
for an audit

Refusing to respond to Dolan's concerns and requests or take any
action to remedy obvious problems including but not limited to poor editing

Dolan's main demands were recission of the contract and monetary damages.

An arbitration hearing, in accordance with the American Arbitration
Association rules and subject to the laws of Maryland, was held in Frederick, Maryland on December 12, 2005. Dolan represented himself and PublishAmerica was represented by attorney, Victor Cretella of Frederick. The only witness to testify was PublishAmerica's Chief Executive Officer, Willem Meiners. After the hearing, the arbitrator found in Dolan's favor. He found that PublishAmerica breached the publishing agreement numerous times. The arbitration is public knowledge but the award itself has restrictions that prevent making it public. The award did provide Dolan with the relief he sought.

[love2write]

Cincy,

I agree with you too. Self-publishing is a last resort.

Dave,

Literary agents charge 10-15% commission on the sale of your book. You should never pay anything other than that. There are some scam agencies out there that will ask for money up front or to edit your book for a fee. The best route to go is to find an agent through the Association of Authors Representatives. They have a cannon of ethics they must follow in order to be a member. This is the gold standard in the industry.

I recommend you buy the book Your Novel Proposal, From Creation to Contract by Blythe Camenson and Marshall Cook. It is the best book I have yet to read that takes an author from start to finish and covers all the bases regarding submitting a novel to agents and publishers. I followed the advice in this book and the first query I sent out, the agent requested the first three chapters. She liked what she read but turned out she was looking for historical romance and my book is historical. My mistake. I sent out the query a second time and that agent has asked for the first 50 pages. This book really helped.

Once you have an excellent, gripping query, start sending it out to agents that represent your genre.

Here is a list of agents that accept email queries. Do a search for their websites and be sure they represent your genre before you query. http://bksp.org/Agents%20That%20Accept%20Email%20Queries%20(Kriste n%20Nelson).pdf

If the link doesn't work try http://www.bksp.org/Agent%20Listings.html
Click 'Agents that accept email queries'.

Here is the link for The Association of Authors Representatives. http://www.aar-online.org/mc/directory/viewallmembers.do?masthead=true

Also check an agents status at Preditors & Editors.

[David Cristwell]

Hmmm... If I self published my sequel, and had these on hand when I do my book signing May 6, wouldn't that be a trip?

The only "give" they are willing to make thus far, is allowing me to keep ebook rights. Will they go ballistic when I burn my book to a CD and sell it on ebay for 1/3 of what they want for the "softcover"?

I am trying to find the book, "Your Novel Proposal, From Creation to Contract" locally, but may have to get it on Amazon.

Meanwhile instead of signing another contract, I need to pray about this.

At least I got paid some for the magazine articles that were published.

[Debtfree]

I was thinking of submitting a manuscript to Publish America. Do any of you know of good
or bad things about the place. I thought the webstite looked Okay. :confused:

Hope to hear from you :D !thumbsup! :cool:

I would run from them like they have leprosy.

From what I have read on-line about them they are a 2-bit third rate rip off. The end product looks like garbage.

Again, this is what most reports I have heard are saying.

However, I do know of a publisher (a POD) company which is owned by a believer called PawPrintsPOD.com. I am using them to produce my book. So far they have been awesome and I have had a great experience working with them.

If you contact Linda, the owner of PawPrints, please tell her that Gregg Huestis referred you. No, I don't get any perks for doing this.

I just promised Linda to help promote her service to as many other Christian authors as I can. She has been wonderful to work with and has helped me out so much.

My book will be set up by them and ready for publication by the end of March and it only cost me $199.

I would visit their site and see what you can do with them. They are really awesome to work with.

Here is the site: PawPrintsPOD.com (http://www.pawprintspod.com)

I hope this info is of help to you.

God bless,
Debtfree (Gregg Huestis)

[David Cristwell]

Actually the finished product looks outstanding on my copies of "Auroraview, Alaska." Much better than the picture on my website, which has been reduced in size. Of course if they expect a 376 page paperback to sell for $24.95 it BETTER look good! Therin lies the rub. At that price, nobody wants to carry it, and unless you plan to spend every spare moment promoting it and don't mind buying a couple thousand copies to go on consignment, you have a beautiful book, that nobody save for close friends and kin folk are willing to spend that much for.

Ithink most publishers that will go outside the well-known people have some gimmick to separate us from our money. My out of pocket cost so far is a few dollars for gas and phone calls and it will get listed on every bookseller on the web's site. Beyond that they are like a beautiful seductress who seduces you, has your baby (publishes the book), and says, "here, you raise it, and you better be prepared to spend some time and money."

Thus I don't expect short of a divine miracle that it will ever break the 10,000 copy threshhold. However, it's all in God's hands.

It's a handsome looking book. Then, Satan was the most beautiful of all the angels before he fell. The devil is in the details as they say.

[def]

Does anyone out there know the skinny on Tate Publishing? They say that they're a main-line publisher, turn down 97-98% of all manuscripts, receive 10,000 mnscrpts a year for review and specialize in first time authors. They claim to put 12 to 20 thounsand dollars into the marketing of every manuscript they accept. But here's the deal: they require almost $4000 up front that they call 'author participation' which they say goes mainly into the promotion of the book. If 5000 books sell, they return the investment.

So far, I've been unable to find out anything about them except what is written in their own material. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has had experience with them first hand or who knows how to research them.

[lindenbooks]

I checked out Tate Publishing when another author on this board said they were accepted by them; I like to keep up-to-date with what's being offered out there in terms of publishing.

From what I read, Tate is a glorified self-publishing company, and I mean this in a good way. They don't take the author's rights, something PA does. It costs a lot of money for publishers to produce a book, so if they charge up front and don't take the author's rights, then that qualifies as self-publishing. However, if they give back money after a certain point, all the better for the author.

The only thing an author would need to make sure of, is if Tate Publishing is acceptable by brick and mortar store standards; will the book stores carry their titles?

[def]

Thanks for your input.
def

[ibrinkley]

PA is willing to take a chance on unknown writers and they foot the bill for the whole thing. They don't ask for a dime. I'm writing to bring glory to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If I don't make money, who cares? I'm getting the message out that He gave me. For me, it's not about money. So I'm very pleased with PA. I have two books published through them that I couldn't have done any other way. And they have my third book in their hands and if they publish it also, I'll just keep praising God. Inez

[lindenbooks]

You're absolutely right, Inez. Publish America can be great for that. I don't discourage people from PA, I try to encourage people who are discouraged by PA. That's the difference; understanding the different needs and concerns of different authors.

God bless you...Cami

[love2write]

PA is fine if you do not want your book in bookstores. It is fine too if you want your book to be priced at least $10 more than other books and you want to buy your own books and sell them. It's fine too if you don't mind being printed by a company that now has a terrible reputation in the book industry. Agents and publishers are now telling PA authors their books with PA are not considered a legitamate publishing credit and is considered a vanity press.

PA printed my first novel in 2001. I signed in 2000 and did not know anything about the industry. My contract had a clause that they were to get my next book. So I was locked in out of my own ignorance. When they sent me the cover, my heart sank. It was a photo shop photo of a field of daffodiles which had nothing to do with the story. It was ugly. I just about fell out of my chair when they priced my book at $29.95! I knew there was no way people would buy a paperback for that price.

The print was not properly laid out either, nor did the person assigned to my book edit it. I found out he was a college student. In fact he admitted to me on the phone he had not read my book. After two years I finally got PA to change the cover and straighten out the layout. They did a better job on the next book, but it was still priced too high at $24.95. I had several book signings at the library. I could not get bookstores to give me one because my books were with PA. I had to buy my own copies and this set me back hundreds of dollars.

For some, PA works fine. But for writers who want a career as a novelist, it will not move your career forward. Believe me, I am writing this from first hand experience. It was never an issue for me about making money. I still do not want to be 'rich and famous'. But I want to be read by the reading public. The average PA book sells 75 copies. If you have a message you want to get out there, and glorify God, you want your book to sell. I have read posts by PA authors saying they are not in this for the money. But aren't you in it to be read? Isn't that why you sought a publisher in the first place?

For me, as a Christian, when The Washington Post and Frederick News Post came out with articles on PA, and due to some personal experiences I had with PA, after I went to the convention they held and learned more, I prayed the Lord would release me from them. Just as Christians will not do business with companies we know are operating on less than godly principles, I felt I should no longer be in covenant with this company. There is too much evidence out their that the CEOs of PA are con-men.

Read the links I posted in this thread. Read about Phil Dolan's court case with PA. By the way there are other arbitration hearings coming up. PA lied to the UK authors when they posted a webpage claiming to be headquartered in Milton Keynes, England when they were not and Publish Britannica was really PA. They lied when they said they had gone into partnership with the New York Times and would have PA books on the best sellers list. They hyped everyone up when they announced PA books would be returnable, then when authors found out bookstores would only get a 5% discount the bottom of that idea fell out. Bookstores require a 40-50% discount, not 5.

I am all for encouraging writers, and now that I've been through the PA experience, I will discourage anyone from publishing with them. Instead, I have a load of information that I pass on to writers about literary agents and the publishing industry, as well as contacts.

For me personally, when things went downhill fast with PA, I knew I had to get out. I did nothing. God opened the door for me to be released from my contracts. Now, I am rewriting my novels under new titles, and I finished another historical novel a month ago. Things have changed in the industry, and so I had to relearn what I need to do to have a well edited book and book proposal. I started querying agents a few weeks ago. Right now my partial is with a top agency.

PA may have been right for you. It isn't right for everyone. The bill they foot is around $300 to but a book through production. They depend on authors purchasing their own books, which makes up for that cost. This is PA's business model: to sell to the author, not the reading public. Also writers should be aware that PA accepts any manuscript that is sent to them. I know this because I was told this by a PA employee. They do not care about the quality of the book. A group of Sci-fi authors tested this by sending them a manuscript titled Atlanta Nights, which is the worse book ever written. PA accepted this manuscript right away. Here's the link. You can read about what happened, and they have the pdf for the book there as well.

http://www.critters.org/sting/

Inez, you say you have two books published with them that you couldn't have done any other way. Why not? Did you contact Christian publishers and literary agents? I want to encourage you to do this with your next book. If you have a message you want to get out there, then send your proposal out to Christian agents. If your book is good, it should be on the bookstores shelves and read.


Inez, I wish you the very best in your endeavors and that it brings glory to God. I hope I have not offended you.

[David Cristwell]

I am still in a holding pattern on the contract, but plan to submit "The Bush Pilot's Daughters" (less the subtitle PA insisted on) to at least two other publishers before next week. One problem is that a couple I have looked at DO NOT want Christian themed stories, and will say so.

Can you or someone recommend any legitimate publishers?

[love2write]

David,

I sent you an email with information about an agent.

Rita

[David Cristwell]

God bless you,

(even when you don't sneeze)


David

[ibrinkley]

Rita, of course you didn't offend me. I just figured from all I've heard that a new writer could not even get in the door of a "legitimate" publisher. I have doubts about PA also since I see how high the books are but like others who write Christian stuff, where else do we go? My third book which hasn't been accepted by PA yet, is really my best in my opinion. Where can I submit it? Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks for your input. Inez

[lindenbooks]

You did a good job explaining it, Rita, in a right spirit. You're right, it's about getting the message "out there" as best we can.

Inez: Sadly, there is no easy way. But this is how PA draws people in. Still, there is nothing but hope, because "we do the possible, God does the impossible." And you have to work hard at the possible. In publishing, it's the traditional means that bring forth the traditional results. I didn't want to go through the traditional means of soliciting literary agents, but I am working just as hard learning to be a publisher myself. It's all in what calls us to do; doing it with all our hearts, unto the Lord, not unto men."

"The time is coming when we will have to decide between what is right and what is easy."

[NancyMehl]

Rita told me about this site. When I can, I'll take some time to go through all the wonderful information here.

My first novel, Graven Images, was printed by PA. At the time, I thought they were an actual publishing company. I knew another inspirational author who had published with them, so I thought they were okay. In fact, I contacted PA before submitting to them and told them I definitely was not interested in POD publishing. They responded with assurances that they were a "traditional" publisher, not POD. This wasn't the truth. Of course they accepted my manuscript. They accept almost everything.

When they returned my manuscript after "editing," I found that they had added mistakes! I finally got that cleared up and they printed my books. I had a paperback book priced at $19.95. This is way too expensive. Also, I discovered that it was almost impossible to get my book into bookstores because of the lack of returnability. Now, PA says their books are returnable, but the discount they offer to bookstores is ridiculous. Bookstores will not order for a 5% discount (unless they are owned by your cousin!)

I am one of PA's most successful authors, selling (according to their count which I don't trust) over 1300 books. (I still have copies of outstanding invoices that have never been paid.) But when I started trying to work on a deal with Kansas Kroger stores, they cancelled my contract due to "lack of sales." I discovered later that I wasn't selling books according to their business model. They want the author to buy their own books and sell them. This makes them the greatest percentage of profit. If we want our books to reach the public, this isn't the way to go.

During the time I was with PA, I saw authors threatened, belittled, manipulated, and lied to. I don't recommend them for anyone anymore.

As per the author, a PA credit it no credit at all when it comes to mainstream publishing. Since it is widely known that PA prints almost everything that comes in, those "in the know" realize that our work didn't actually receive a professional appraisal before it was printed.

Now, for the good news! (You thought I'd never get here, didn't you????) God is still on the throne. No matter what mistakes we make, He can turn them around for our good. My PA book was picked up by another small publisher. I had another book published last year, one coming out this year, and I just signed with Barbour Books for their new mystery line! That book will be out in March of 2007.

So...I encourage you to pass by PA and find someone else. Even a small press with people who care about your work is better than PA. If you are with PA now, you have to do the best with what you have - or you can stop selling books, ask for your rights back, and hope you get them so you can find another publisher.

One thing I want to make clear: Some PA authors get discouraged when they realize that PA didn't really review their work. They begin to feel that maybe they're not any good. But the reality is that it doesn't mean anything. There are some excellent authors printed through PA. I've read some of their books.

Every experience has blessings. Being involved with PA is a negative as far as my writing goes - but I've met some wonderful people (like Rita.) And God always perfects that which concerns me. I expect Him to fulfill his call on my life no matter what mistakes I've made. He's bigger than any publishing company!

Nancy
www.nancymehl.com

[ibrinkley]

Thanks all of you. I will begin to look around for my last novel which PA hasn't accepted or rejected, they just keep holding it. Guess they're waiting to see if the first one will make any money before they commit to another one. Inez

[NancyMehl]

Hi, Inez!

I visited your Web site. Wow. It's really cool. My son is designing a new one for me, but things are moving rather slowly.

I LOVE the title of your book. I'm sure there's a great story behind it.

You seem to be a very talented woman. It's nice to meet you.

Nancy
www.nancymehl.com

[ibrinkley]

thanks Nancy and good luck with your book. Glad you found a "real" publisher to publish your book. I pray God's richest blessings on you! Inez

[def]

Back to about 12 posts above.

I checked out Tate Publishing with an author who has published 2 books through them. He said that the people there are pleasant, but they definitely are not a traditional publisher. If they spend the $16,000.00 they claim to spend on your project it must include there salaries, overhead and every other expense that can be related in any way. Their "agressive marketing and distribution plan" does not include one procedure that would require a cash investment on their part; it merely makes the book "available" to book distributors along with email announcements.

They may be selective to a degree, but as they are a fairly new company specializing in first time authors who pay seven times as much as the average POD to get their book published, It would seem likely that most book distributors would not be impressed.

He also ran into problems with sloppy editing, and their "top artists" used a stock photograph of a field of daisies for the cover of his book which related in no way to the subject matter of his writing.

In short, the language that Tate uses to convince new authors that they are a traditional publishing company with the highest royalies ( 15% ) in the business is misleading, to say the least.

[lindenbooks]

Ah, yes--and as I said a few posts back; there is no easy way to get published "right."

Cami

[NancyMehl]

Inez,

PA may not be a mainstream publisher, but that is no reflection on your book. I know many people who wrote wonderful books that were released through PA. At the very least, I picked up some readers who continued to follow me through my next several publishing "adventures." LOL!

Good thing God isn't limited by our publishers, isn't it? He is still on the throne, and His calling on your life is still intact. I've learned a lot through the years, and I try to pass my experiences on to other writers. If I can save some of them from making my mistakes, maybe their path will be a little easier.

And the truth is, this writing experience is a "path." We have to kick the stones out of the way, step around the boulders, and keep going. God has a destination for each of us, and we'll get there if we don't get discouraged!

God bless you on your journey,

Nancy

[htack210]

Can anyone here tell me about PA and its contracts? The one I signed was for seven years. When that time is up, am I free to publish my book elsewhere?

[NancyMehl]

Can anyone here tell me about PA and its contracts? The one I signed was for seven years. When that time is up, am I free to publish my book elsewhere?

Yes. At that time, all rights will be returned to you. You will be free to publish it through someone else - or self-publish if that is what you want to do.

Nancy

[htack210]

Thanks. That's good to know. :)

[Ann.English]

I've just put a few comments about Lulu on the Lulu thread
> General Discussion > The Writers' Lounge
> Lulu Report Card II

[Chramosta]

PUBLISH AMERICA: Good: 1, you WILL get published. 2. It will cost you NOTHING 3. you will get two free copies of your book 3. You will get an "advance" $1.00 4. your book will be listed all over the world, including Japan (Mostly by AMAZON and Barns and Noble.) 5. Pays Royalties 8% for the first 2000 books sold, than it goes up.

Bad: 1. SEVEN YEAR CONTRACT, 2. Publishing takes couple months. 3. some annoyances with publisher, who just kicked me off their Bulletin Board for telling the truth about SELF PUBLISHING.
Bottom line? Not too bad, if you want to get published and the truth is: it will not cost you a penny except for postage when you mail back signed contract.

[Chramosta]

Glenn, yes after seven years, you are free to publish your book with any other publisher.

[ibrinkley]

Another bad thing is that if they publish your book, then give you a contract on book #2, they drag their feet and wait forever to even start on book #2 because they're waiting to see how well book #1 will sell. They published my first book right away. Now they won't even assign an editor to book #2. Well, for book #3 I am publishing it free through LuLu, which does exactly as PA does and all you pay is $34.95. (It will be listed on Amazon, B&N, and all major booksellers) And books are a lot cheaper so you'll probably sell more. You can buy as many as you want for yourself for around $8.50 for a 200 page book. They deleted my post when I asked about Lulu on PA. And for $149 you can have your book listed internationally. It's actually free to publish. You only pay for the book unless you want to market it for the $34.95.

[NancyMehl]

Bad: 1. SEVEN YEAR CONTRACT, 2. Publishing takes couple months. 3. some annoyances with publisher, who just kicked me off their Bulletin Board for telling the truth about SELF PUBLISHING.
Bottom line? Not too bad, if you want to get published and the truth is: it will not cost you a penny except for postage when you mail back signed contract.

I agree, but I think there are other things to consider:

It will cost you something to get printed by PA. You will have to copyright your own book for $30.00. In most cases, you will have to buy your own books for signings, consignment deals, etc. You have to do your own promotion, and that usually costs something.

Also: Books are overpriced. Little or no editing. (Many writers actually had errors added to their books. This happened to me.) Most bookstores will not stock PA books due to either their unreturnability - or in the case of the few books they've made returnable, their ridiculous 5% discount to bookstores. They have an awful reputation in the publishing industry. They are known to be quite rude to their authors and even bookstores. They accept almost everyone, even though they say they read every manuscript that comes in. (This has been proven untrue on more than one occasion.) They treat authors who question them or disagree with them, with an unbelieveable lack of respect.

When I first realized that PA had lied to me and that they were not what I'd believed when I signed up, I still told some people that sometimes PA might be a good choice. I don't say that anymore having learned much more about the company.

If you're thinking about PA, please think again. I suggest that you go to www.absolutewrite.com and read their two threads about PA. It will take you awhile, but it will be eye-opening.

If you're already published with PA, don't be discouraged. Readers will still recognize quality. PA does not define you one way or the other. Write another book - but wait for a mainstream publisher. When it happens, it will be worth it.

If you want to self-publish, there are better choices. And...you will keep your rights.

Nancy

[David Cristwell]

Do overs!:rolleyes:

I loved PA so much that I took my first overpriced book that precious few stores would touch, renamed it (slightly, just to tweak them because they wanted me to rename my second. The title was too close in their minds to another book they published) Rewrote and changed the whole story line and characters to better mesh with my second book (whew! 248 pages.) It has a whole new plot, a better one I believe, and I published it on Lulu in hardcover, (which they wouldn't allow with the first book).

I will do my May 6 booksigning for the PA book at Barnes & Noble, but I will also have copies of the sequel, and my preview of the replacement. After that, I will walk away from the PA book. If they spent half as much time actually helping people edit their manuscript, as they do purging their message boards of posts that ask questions they don't want answered, or post what kind of experiences the authors have had, the books might actually have a bit more respect.

[Chramosta]

Don't get me wrong here, I am just trying to sum up the cost at both places and it still is the fact that that for free you will get wider exposure with PA and I mean, you don't need to pay for your copy right. Just the same you would have to pay at lulu, if you wanted it.
The way I see it is: If I want to publish a book without any cost to me and do NOTHING, and don't mind waiting, just hope, someone somewhere will buy it...than the winner with 2 free copies is PA. If I prefer to do my own work, want it in print RIGHT NOW, also for free, and do my own marketing (with no free copies, and posted only on lulu website,) then I would go with lulu.

[Chramosta]

...I forgot: 7 year contract with PA, you are ABSOLUTELY free with lulu and of course the big thing for me with lulu is I CAN CHANGE THE TEXT, ADD OR DELETE, REWRITE and upload it again AT ANY TIME. That alone is worth a lot to me.

[NancyMehl]

Unless they have changed their contract, you do have to apply for a copyright with PA and send them a copy of it.

I think the smart thing to do is to check out all the information - then make a decision. The problem for some PA authors is that they took someone else's word for it and made a decision without all the facts. Getting an overpriced, unedited book from a company with a terrible reputation may not be a good idea. Lulu and iUniverse are much better choices. You have more control and you make more in royalties.

Many, many, many PA authors believe they haven't been paid all the royalties they were due. I have receipts from orders that have never been paid to me.

So...I guess the bottom line is to use wisdom and pray! Pray! Pray!

Nancy

[David Cristwell]

I wash my hands of Publish America. After my book signing at Barnes and Noble in Tyler, on May 6, I am going to ask to be released from my contract. As spiteful as they have been towards me for withdrawing "The Bush Pilot's Daughters" it would not surprise me if they don't send the books B & N orders for it.

Once you see what they are, they don't want you to post, ask questions, or anything. Either way, they will from that point on ignore you.

Most recently, the book they published for me "Auroraview, Alaska" was officially released March 20. There is a webpage for new PA Author releases, which I have been watching since January when I got my author copies. To date, my book has not been featured and inquiries by e-mail as to why have gone unanswered.

Message board posts asking why, when others were featured have been DELETED!

When you approach bookstores about carrying your book, PA is the Rodney Daingerfield of publishing, (they get no respect). However PA has earned their disrespect. Don't let them drag you down with a good book like I did.

[htack210]

I wash my hands of Publish America. After my book signing at Barnes and Noble in Tyler, on May 6, I am going to ask to be released from my contract. As spiteful as they have been towards me for withdrawing "The Bush Pilot's Daughters" it would not surprise me if they don't send the books B & N orders for it.

Once you see what they are, they don't want you to post, ask questions, or anything. Either way, they will from that point on ignore you.

Most recently, the book they published for me "Auroraview, Alaska" was officially released March 20. There is a webpage for new PA Author releases, which I have been watching since January when I got my author copies. To date, my book has not been featured and inquiries by e-mail as to why have gone unanswered.

Message board posts asking why, when others were featured have been DELETED!

When you approach bookstores about carrying your book, PA is the Rodney Daingerfield of publishing, (they get no respect). However PA has earned their disrespect. Don't let them drag you down with a good book like I did.
David, first let me congratulate you on being able to schedule a book signing at B&N with your PA book. That in and of itself is an accomplishment given PA's reputation!

Second, let me say that I am with you when it comes to PA. I published my first book with them, and the price was so embarrasingly high I didn't even try promoting it to anyone. As for trying to get out from under PA's contract, I have been unsuccessful, but I do know authors who have done it. The key, I am told, is being able to threaten PA with numbers. In other words, if you can show that what they have been paying you in royalties doesn't match up with books you know you have sold, PA will usually cave. They'll do it ungraciously, but at least you'll be free.

[lgracebrooks]

Hi,
I don't know what to think about Publish America yet. So far they have delivered all they promised but what THE ASQUINN TWINS COME TO FOREST LAKE will look like once it's printed I have yet to find out. I'm expecting my free author'ds copies any day now. I've heard so much negative about PA.:(
http://www.lulu.com/content/231128
Http://www.geocities.com/lgracebrooks

[David Cristwell]

When I got my author copies, my friends asked me if I had read it yet? I told them, "I wrote it, why should I read it?"

They all advised I needed to actually hold it in my hands and turn the pages. When I did, I was shocked at the typos, mispunctuations, and the likes (9 mistakes I found). In the contract it says they will charge to fix them once the book goes to print... They simply refused to bother.

Guess what? At that point you "already bought it, defective and all." If the writers are their primary customers, and they treat us like dirt, how then do you think they treat the bookstores that buy them? And we wonder why the stores have no respect for PA?

I did, then it was revealed to me too. :o

After all they have the disclaimer in the front about self editing that basically absolves them by saying "Someone never took any writing classes in college, and probably didn't like English, and you just bought that someone's book." Not in those words, but you get my drift.

Just pray that yours comes out okay.

[lgracebrooks]

Hello, I received my results from Publish America yesterday. Allowing little mistakes here and there, everything looks fine BUT for one page. There's some characters named, Kenny Matty, Sherry and Martha. Kenny and Martha are brother and sister, Matty and Sherry are brother and sister. The way they have the paragraph read, kenny has fallen in love with Martha, his siter, and wants her to marry him. It's supposed to be Matty and Martha that get married, or betrothes in THE ASQUINN TWINS COME TO FOREST LAKE. The book is now for sale on www.Amazon.com or from www.publishamerica.com
I would advise you not to buy this book if you are so inclined for now. PA has very relucently agreed to fix this MAJOR mistake. They've also promised to let me know when it is safe to order.

[David Cristwell]

I am sure at PA it is perfectly normal to marry their siblings. Then again, they probably only think they are married because they use the last name. Or they follow their parents' role model and never bother to marry. (I can't believe I just said that.)

I got another let down yesterday, when a Christian book store here in town declined putting a PA book in his store, even on consignment. At least I got those two back.

A friend once said, "Experience is the best teacher, but the cost of the tuition is way too high."

[Betsy_Markman]

I have a website on which I post my correspondences with PublishAmerica. I have deliberately included no rhetoric or editorializing. I simply copy-and-paste my interactions with Author Support and the Royalties Department.

If anyone wishes to know more about what it's like to be a PublishAmerica author, please drop by. Look at what PublishAmerica has to say, then decide for yourself what you think.

I'm glad to have found this group, and I look forward to getting better acquainted.

[CindyLee]

Hi Betsy! And Welcome!

Most of what you discovered pretty much coincides what I've been hearing about self-publishing. The book prices seem so high that it makes it pretty difficult for a first time author to get established, and book stores are reluctant to host self-published author signings because of the logistics of working with these POD publishers.

What concerned me most about your correspondence was that you had a local library that wanted to purchase a copy of your book, but that PA was unable to fulfill the order! Their fulfillment capablilites seemed to be their strongest asset.

I'm actually thinking about starting my own publishing company because I can be in complete control. I'd have to start with only selling through amazon.com or my own efforts, but since there are printing companies (check out www.instantpublisher.com) that can print them for $2.00 to $3.00 per copy, I'm thinking I can afford to price them at 7.99 to get them started. It's easier to get someone to take a gamble on a $8.00 to $10.00 book than to try to get them to shell out $20.00 - $25.00 on an unknown author.

Just my thoughts.

-C

[David Cristwell]

I just compared my latest lulu.com published book, and Instant Publishing is over $3 more than what lulu will do them for. They require 25 copies, and Lulu will make you one. Maybe it was because I didn't want a plain white cover. Lulu will still use my own color photos for the covers.
www.lulu.com

Thanks for the link, however.

[tlm]

This is my first post on this site, but I thought I might share my experience with PA. I learned about them from the Sally Stuart book when they were listed as Erica House. I sent a query letter to them. At the time, there was nothing on the Internet or with the BBB about them. I felt real good about the whole matter.

I had a lawyer look over the contract. It was a two book deal and I knew that it would be mostly local distribution. I was okay with the things that were in the contract, because I was a high risk for any publisher (no reputation). It was the things that weren't in the contract that were the problem.

I wasn't all that eager to submit a second book, but I had signed a contract and was willing to honor it. No matter what kind of people they were, I was determined to do the right thing. I finally submitted the 2nd book, a Christian teen romance, and signed a contract this past fall. I received the proofs this spring.

I was stunned. I had gone through the proofing nightmare with the 1st book, Chance Encountes, and was sure it could not get worse than them sending proofs with 1/2 of the paragraphs indented incorrectly.

Postcards from Paradise was far worse than that. The book was 163 pages and it had 191 SETS of errors in the MS. Every plural noun in the book was changed to possessive and all the possessive nouns were changed to plural! Halfway through the book, the main character's names were changed from Conroy to Convoy. On every other page, my name was misspelled. Needless to say, these were errors that were added to the MS because of the use of spell check without actually reading the book.

I literally spent hours reading and rereading my book to try to list the 191 corrections that needed to be made to fix the proofs. They didn't like the way I submitted the corrections and asked me to do it over (remember these were their errors, not mine). I spent hours doing this and submitted them again. Again they sent me a message, asking me to submit the correction a new way. I asked them to stop production on the second book. I haven't heard a reply yet, but am banned from their board.

I really wanted to abide by my contract and would have just about accepted anything to do this. I just could not accept my name on a book that had at least 1 error per page.

[NancyMehl]

This is my first post on this site, but I thought I might share my experience with PA. I learned about them from the Sally Stuart book when they were listed as Erica House. I sent a query letter to them. At the time, there was nothing on the Internet or with the BBB about them. I felt real good about the whole matter.

I had a lawyer look over the contract. It was a two book deal and I knew that it would be mostly local distribution. I was okay with the things that were in the contract, because I was a high risk for any publisher (no reputation). It was the things that weren't in the contract that were the problem.

I wasn't all that eager to submit a second book, but I had signed a contract and was willing to honor it. No matter what kind of people they were, I was determined to do the right thing. I finally submitted the 2nd book, a Christian teen romance, and signed a contract this past fall. I received the proofs this spring.

I was stunned. I had gone through the proofing nightmare with the 1st book, Chance Encountes, and was sure it could not get worse than them sending proofs with 1/2 of the paragraphs indented incorrectly.

Postcards from Paradise was far worse than that. The book was 163 pages and it had 191 SETS of errors in the MS. Every plural noun in the book was changed to possessive and all the possessive nouns were changed to plural! Halfway through the book, the main character's names were changed from Conroy to Convoy. On every other page, my name was misspelled. Needless to say, these were errors that were added to the MS because of the use of spell check without actually reading the book.

I literally spent hours reading and rereading my book to try to list the 191 corrections that needed to be made to fix the proofs. They didn't like the way I submitted the corrections and asked me to do it over (remember these were their errors, not mine). I spent hours doing this and submitted them again. Again they sent me a message, asking me to submit the correction a new way. I asked them to stop production on the second book. I haven't heard a reply yet, but am banned from their board.

I really wanted to abide by my contract and would have just about accepted anything to do this. I just could not accept my name on a book that had at least 1 error per page.

Have you posted this on the AbsoluteWrite forum? If not, I encourage you to do so. They have a thread just for PublishAmerica info. Aw is located at www.absolutewrite.com.

I'm really sorry you went through this. It certainly underscores the warnings going out about PA. They DON'T read manuscripts carefully. Spell check is the only thing you can count on as far as editing.

When they had my book, the only thing they did was turn the "its" into "it's" - all of them. Of course, that's wrong.

Hang in there. I got my book back from PA a couple of years ago and am getting ready to sign a three book deal with Barbour Books.

There is life after PA!

Nancy Mehl

[htack210]

Hey, Nancy, were you able to get your PA book published with Barbour? I was just recently released by PA (yahoo!) and am thinking about rewriting the work and getting it to a REAL publisher.

[tlm]

Thank you Nancy. I was familiar with The Never-Ending Publish America Thread and the New NEPAT. I sent them my story. They have been very helpful.

I didn't want to be disloyal, but couldn't promote a book with so many errors in it. I am guessing that they knew it would take too long to fix the mess they made and just wrote me off. If they return my rights, I am not sure what I will do with the MS. Since it is specifically a teen book, I am not sure it is marketable. We'll see.

I am very happy to hear about your success. I think you were posting on the PA board when I first started to lurk there. Your success inspires me.

[NancyMehl]

Hey, Nancy, were you able to get your PA book published with Barbour? I was just recently released by PA (yahoo!) and am thinking about rewriting the work and getting it to a REAL publisher.

No. Graven Images was released through a small publisher (Winterwolf) that is now out of business. I have another novel published through Zumaya and one more that was just released through Treble Heart. They are both good, small publishers, but I really encourage you to try for the larger houses. The difference is huge.

For example, in advances alone, I've made more money through Barbour than all my other books combined - and the book hasn't even been published yet! Also, they are so professional and caring. I know that when my book comes out, Barbour will have done everything they can to make it a success. That means a great deal to me.

So...you should rewrite your book, but I would make it look very different. Most large publishers won't want to release a book that has been previously published - especially through PA.

I pray God's blessings on your efforts!

Nancy

[NancyMehl]

Thank you Nancy. I was familiar with The Never-Ending Publish America Thread and the New NEPAT. I sent them my story. They have been very helpful.

I didn't want to be disloyal, but couldn't promote a book with so many errors in it. I am guessing that they knew it would take too long to fix the mess they made and just wrote me off. If they return my rights, I am not sure what I will do with the MS. Since it is specifically a teen book, I am not sure it is marketable. We'll see.

I am very happy to hear about your success. I think you were posting on the PA board when I first started to lurk there. Your success inspires me.

Oh, thank you for saying that. So many writers have been so hurt through their PA experience. I am hopeful that some of them will see that PA does not need to define them in any way. There is life after PA - IF you don't give up. Not everyone out there operates like PA.

I was too stubborn to quit because of them. If you truly believe you are supposed to be an author, then first of all, you have to be willing to learn everything you can about writing. After that comes lots of hard work and patience. The final ingredient is refusal to give up - no matter what!

In the 11 years I've been writing, I've seen lots of writers fall by the wayside. Only the truly determined ones are still hanging in there - and many of them are seeing success.

God bless you,

Nancy

[tlm]

Fortunately, I had some successes with magazine articles before and during my experience with PA. I even had an article in The Family Digest last month. I believe that has helped me fight any doubts about the skill that God has given me.

I am working on a new book this summer and the story is flowing with great ease. I have researched publishers of this genre and do not believe that PA is the end to my writing career.

I am glad to find a site where I can learn more about writing instead of the PA site which was becoming quite "cultish" in its devotion to the publisher. BTW I am banned from them and my book no longer shows on their site.

[ibrinkley]

I had the same problem with errors in my first book with PA and had to keep correcting them every time they sent a proof. Well that's done & it's on the market. However, I had signed a contract with them for another book but I wanted out of the contract because I published a different book on Lulu and I can sell it so much cheaper than PA's book, plus I still own all rights and don't have a contract with anyone. Well guess what? I emailed PA and said that none of my books were selling so I wouldn't be buying any more books from them and could I please get out of the 2nd contract (which they have not even done anything with my manuscript after 8 months or so). I got a certified letter today and THEY RELEASED ME FROM CONTRACT!!! Praise God! It must be by His hand because I've heard they are tough about such things. So now I'm free to publish it on Lulu. (It is a prequel to the other Lulu book).

[Betsy_Markman]

I had the same problem with errors in my first book with PA and had to keep correcting them every time they sent a proof. Well that's done & it's on the market. However, I had signed a contract with them for another book but I wanted out of the contract because I published a different book on Lulu and I can sell it so much cheaper than PA's book, plus I still own all rights and don't have a contract with anyone. Well guess what? I emailed PA and said that none of my books were selling so I wouldn't be buying any more books from them and could I please get out of the 2nd contract (which they have not even done anything with my manuscript after 8 months or so). I got a certified letter today and THEY RELEASED ME FROM CONTRACT!!! Praise God! It must be by His hand because I've heard they are tough about such things. So now I'm free to publish it on Lulu. (It is a prequel to the other Lulu book).

Congratulations on getting out so easily! PA is releasing more and more authors now. Hopefully that's a sign that their house is crumbling.

They canceled my contract without my ever asking them to. They didn't like the way I was exposing their fraudulent practices on my website. I'm glad to be out, but I'm going to continue warning people on both my websites. I'm hoping to find a legitimate publisher that will accept my book and save it from oblivion. God has plans for the book, I know it!

[Naomi Musch]

Nancy, did you submit directly to Barbour, or with an agent? Just curious. Congratulations, by the way.

I am a PA author also, and thankfully I did not have the barrage of problems described here. But I would say that if you are unhappy with the product, don't promote it, don't sell it, don't buy authors copies. That's how they make their money anyway. That should make them want to get rid of you fast enough.

[tlm]

Inez,
I remember seeing your book jacket. You were posting at PA not-so-long ago, I think. How long did it take to get a release letter? I sent my request Monday and they banned me and took my book off of their site yesterday. How long a wait do you think I might have?

Naomi,
There are many people who feel fine with PA and I do understand that. I was okay with them for awhile, myself, even though I knew they were not what they advertized themselves to be. Then the other problems came about . . .

Thanks for the replies from everyone.

[ibrinkley]

I am not released from the book they published so I don't guess they took it off their website but I'd better check, huh? I sent an email last Monday or Tuesday and today I got a certified letter saying they released me from my contract on A Light in Darkness, which they had not published yet. I'm just so thankful to get out of the second contract. They had given me an ISBN # but when I publish it on Lulu I think I will get another one so the book won't have ANY ties to PA.

[ibrinkley]

This is really weird. I have tried 4 times to get on PA's web site & can't. Do you think they could block me from even going to their site?

[tlm]

Inez,

What are you seeing?

Last week there was a thread where people posted that some times they just can't seem to connect to the PA site. People on the site concluded that it might be because of traffic. My son, who visits lots of sites, said it could be cookies that show who has visited anti-PA sites and that, until you turn off the computer, the cookies remain. I don't know if that is true or he is simply paranoid. I do know that when I restarted the computer, I was able to access the site again.

When I was banned the screen said that I was banned. I can still access the PA home page. I went there and tried to pull up my book. It said the book doesn't exist. I have 12 copies on my bookshelf that says it does. :-)

[ibrinkley]

Not seeing anything. It just keeps trying to connect but doesn't. I'll try again when the cookies are cleared. Thanks, Inez

[tlm]

That sounds like what was happening to me and others. It just would not connect.

Sometimes I would google PA and get on the messageboard from the home page. Sometimes the homepage wouldn't even come up. It is weird. When you're banned, they tell you you're banned. In some cases, though, they say later that they didn't.

[ibrinkley]

I finally got on their site and my other book is still listed. It's a shame they wouldn't let me out of that contract also. It is strange that you can't get on the site at times. They must have a very small server.

[tlm]

Did you ask to be let out of that contract, too? If anyone is buying copies of the book, they won't let you out of the contract, but If they aren't, you can get let out. At least that is what has been posted on other threads.

[levedi]

Another reaso not to us PA - commercial publishers will not take you seriously after you use PA. If they see PA on your writing credits they'll write you off as a "gullible amateur" to quote a Tor editor. That may not be fair, but it does happen and it's apparently worse in the fiction market than the non-fiction market.

[tlm]

I have read that, too.

I have used it as a credit, but not as a writing credit. I list magazines and newspapers for which I have written. Then I mention my book and how it taught me marketing skills; writing press releases, having newspaper, radio, and tv talk show interviews. I don't mention how many sales I made with it or that people seem to enjoy Chance Encounters. I just use the book as a springboard to let them know that I can market a book and that I don't freeze in front of a tv camera.

If you used PA as a stand alone credit, I am sure it wouldn't be wise.

[ibrinkley]

I haven't asked to be let out of the first book that is already published but if they did let me out, how would that work? Could I re-publish it through Lulu and use the same cover (which my friend designed)? WHat threads are you referring to? Thanks a lot. Inez

[tlm]

The Absolute Writer's Watercooler has The Never-Ending Publish America Thread (NEPAT) and it became so long it could barely be pulled up so they started the New Never-ending Publish America Thread. You can google and find them both. They have a LOT of information.

About re-publishing, I don't have a lot of answers. Some people are doing rewrites to make their stories better and changing the title so they can be picked up by the Big Boys. I am told that big publishers seldom reprint from another publishing house.

Others are going with Lulu and other printers. I don't think you can use the same cover, but if the picture is not theirs, I am guessing that you can use the picture and design the print (title and your name) in another way. That would make the cover yours. I am NOT a lawyer, so I don't know that for sure.

[tlm]

I have an announcement. I received two letters from PA releasing me from my contract. I now have the freedom to do other things with these manuscripts. I am very excited!

[ellenjames]

Good for you! Hoping you can soon publish your manuscripts with a reputable company.
You have a reason to be excited!

Ellenjames/Bertha
www.freewebs.com/wayber

[love2write]

Congratulations! It seems Publish America is releasing a lot of writers these days.

[ProfessorAlan]

that must be a relief.

[tlm]

Thank you all. Yes, it is a relief. It actually took very little time to get a reply. I have a few plans for both manuscripts. God will lead the way!

I hope that they are not getting rid of the "Old Timers" just because they have a new batch of people to misuse. That would be sad.

[passionpen]

I was thinking about self-publishing. I don't think I will. I'm looking for a profit.

[ibrinkley]

Well since PA released my manuscript, I am going to publish it on Lulu. A friend designed the cover and did a great job. Take a look!
www.alightindarkness.homestead.com

[passionpen]

How do you like self-publishing? How do you like Lulu? What made you decide to use them?

Are you going to market your book?

Is paying for this process worth it?

[BrotherDave]

Great lookng cover!

[tlm]

The site and the book cover both look great, Inez. Isn't there a basic package with lulu where you don't pay anything at all up front? Have you made many sales with Lulu? I am not very computer literate. Is it hard to set the books up?

My last 2 sets of sales with PA were very disappointing, since I didn't get royalties on books that I bought and sold myself.

I am thinking of doing Chance Encounters as an e-book for the moment. I want to do that because I already have a web site up about it. I want to focus on 2 other manuscripts for right now, then come back to Chance Encounters and Postcards from Paradise when my mind is clear.

Good luck.

[David Cristwell]

Lulu charges only for the books, and they pay a nicer royalty too.

[tlm]

Good to know. I have no doubt that I will do some work with them. I am just not sure what or when. Maybe sumer vacation will clear my head. For a couple of years now, I expected this last book to go to PA. Just a few weeks can change everything. lol.