Mark 11:23-24 "believe and ye shall have"

[lightninboy]

Have Mark 11:23-24 and similar cross-referenced verses been used as the subject of writing? It's as good a subject as any, as to whether they apply to today or must be applied to their biblical settings. It's sort of "Is divine healing for today?" You could have a fiction story of a man who falls in love with a woman and claims her by faith but doesn't get her yet and naturally the situation affects his relationship with God and he feels that to date other women would be to deny that he will ever get this woman.You could call the story "Takin' 'er by Faith." I've never read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye," but that sounds kind of like the situation. Also, if we can get anything we want by faith, doesn't that put the Rapture on hold until we get it? I don't read Christian fiction or romance. Maybe this has been covered before. Feel free to use the idea.

[DrRita]

Welcome lightninboy,
Good to meet your aquaintaince. Hope you enjoy this crazy place and make some wonderful friends.

A theological question right up front? Very brave of you lightninboy. Sounds likea good take on any plot, faith, endurance, perserverance--certainly a timeless Christian theme. I think if it was done properly it could hold up well. The character would have to come across as genuine though with a real faith he came by honestly so people could relate.

I don't think we get anything we want when we pray, for as you pointed out, God's plan would become secondary to our wants. I'm sure you didn't really mean that though.

Good to have you with us!! Hope to read some of your work.

[Joanna L.]

Of course Mark 11:23-24 and similar promises of God are true unto the End of the Age for your children and your children's children. And of course divine healing is for today. Faith is a spiritual gift, so it must be a good thing. As for the topic being covered in literature, I recently came across a fiction Christian romance entitled Father by Faith, by Annie Jones (Multnomah, 1997), about a little boy who prays and believes for a father and gets one.

[Merry]

Hi Lightin Boy! Man, you're a weird dude. Who hangs around thinking up this stuff anyway? Just tells me you'll fit in fine. You know what I would do if I were to write this now? I would let our hero fall on his face, doubt God, all that fun stuff we can be guilty of...then through the magic of fantasy, give this guy exactly what he wants on his very own terms and see how unhappy it makes him. Good plot idea!

[Nathanael]

By Faith it shall be yours - Very interesting issue this, and one that has been the source of debate in many churches. There is alot of scope for some great character portrayal in a story that is based on your idea, Lightninboy. Learning to trust God is a soul prism!

I for one have lurched between 'God is simply not that interested in what I do or don't get in this life, it's all about eternity' and 'The Lord will grant whatever I ask, if I will only believe'. Both places are sure to bring heartache.

Somewhere in the middle is the Biblical approach ( one that takes in the whole picture as recorded in scripture, not just the verse from Mark ) I am still trying to get there. I have known amazing answer to prayer very quickly, and complete disappointment over some things that were sought and persevered for over years. One thing is certain, the Lord can do no wrong in this regard, it is our perception of things that is often at fault. I like Dr Rita's comment about prayer and the soveriegn will of God.

I think, when we are really walking 'in the Spirit', our desires are Spirit Led, and our prayers are in tune with Him, so he grants what we ask because it originated in His will. Problem is most of us don't walk with the Lord close enough. Anyway, I am sure you were not asking for us to expound our theological standpoints, but hey, I have done.... :)

[writegirl1949]

Welcome, lightninboy

Great comments here as well.

I agree with most of what everyone else has posted but would like to add one very important thing.

Many times what we want and pray for is not what God has planned for us. :cool: Sometimes we choose to do it anyway. But when we really get obedient ... the kind of obedience that nearly breaks your heart ... then God really starts to work with us.

There was a country song called "I Thank God for Unanswered Prayer," or something like that ... and I was reminded of that the other day when I was doing some heavy duty praying. While there are instances in my life I can look back and thank Him for prayers that went unanswered, the more significant things have been when I've been obedient where I had to do that "die to self" thing (in my humble opinion the hardest thing to do) BUT I've found abundant blessings. There truly is joy in obedience.

I do like some of the ideas for plots mentioned here. Helps get the creative juices flowing. !thumbsup!

Blessings, Francine

[lightninboy]

Here are some websites on the subject.
In favor of New Testament context only:

http://joyceschmedel.home.att.net/Heb25.htm

http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/prosperity.htm
http://www.scholarscorner.com/Scriptum/allied.htm
http://www.discernment.org/wordfaith/WOF.htm
http://www.thechristianexpositor.org/page7.html
http://www.thirdmill.org/answers/answer.asp/file/99957.qna/category/th/page/questions/site/iiim
http://www.crosswalk.com/faith/devotionals/dailyinchrist/544560.html
In favor of for Christians today:
http://www.spiritledwoman.com/biblestudy/slw203/week9.htm
http://members.tripod.com/preachalways/template58.htm
http://tgm.org/
I'm leaning in favor of the contexters. It could be a traumatic experience for a todayer to finally realize he was wrong, though. But life goes on.

[Joanna L.]

You could be right, but your "contexters" aren't all in agreement, are they? I like having a blank check in case I ever need it. If Andrew Murray and Theodore Epp were "todayers," would you say they were wrong? Psalms 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. Wanting something is not necessarily always a desire of the flesh. In apologetics, there is the concept of Sehnsucht or longing. Man has a God-shaped vacuum. If man longs for a relationship with God and follows the light he has and pursues God, God will see that he gets a relationship with God. God gives man what he longs for if he pursues it. Now take that concept to the physical realm. If man truly longs for healing, etc., he will get it if he pursues it or claims it by faith. On the other hand, is the concept of longing really in the Bible or is it manmade by C. S. Lewis, Blaise Pascal, Bill Bright, etc.?

[pb10220]

Joanna, I'm not sure what your 'blank check' refers to; but I do know that Psalm 37:4 is all about desiring God. If we find our delight to be in Him, above all else, above even worthy desires such as healing, He will give us the desire of our hearts...not necessarily healing (though He could), but always Himself. David was 'a man after God's own heart' because He loved God more than anything else. He put it beautifully in Psa. 27:5 when he wrote, "One thing I ask of the Lord, this is what I seek; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord and to seek him in his temple," (emphasis added).

I believe in healing; I believe God CAN heal anyone He wishes. But I don't believe He wishes to all the time, as hard as that may be to understand. Yes, miracles require faith; but not getting the answer we desire only tells us that our desires weren't lined up with God's this time...it is not necessarily an indicator of lack of faith. God's purposes are often bigger than our happiness; His chief purpose is to conform us to the image of His Son. He allows trials and 'bad things' to happen even to those whose faith is exemplary, because it is His means of refining us into that image.

[Joanna L.]

Okay, okay, if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Some people just aren't promised their healing and their stuff. (But they might still get it.) Over the years, I've heard fundamentalists say that the wealth and prosperity gospel is wrong without going into much detail on Mark 11:23-24 not being valid for Christians today. If you have a choice of listening to Kenneth Hagin, Charles Capps, etc., and trying to get some truth from them and listening to no preacher at all, you might very well choose the former. "Todayers" have enough disclaimers and qualifiers to save their hind ends when people don't get their stuff. And, without going to extremes, "contexters" still promote having faith with your prayer. Hmm...There is so much "contexter" in the "todayers" of us, and so much "todayer" in the "contexters" of us, that it behooves us all...

[Joanna L.]

I recently read a book on this subject that was being used in a class in my sister's Methodist church Sunday school: Why Drown When You Can Walk on Water?: Applying Faith to Real Life, by David D. Ireland, Ph.D. (Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 2004). Perhaps it doesn't give as many details as I'd have liked to have read on the subject, though, such as the difference between "todayers" and "contexters." Here is some information about the author:
http://www.twbookmark.com/authors/19/3187/
http://impactministry.org/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=SFNT&Store_Code=IBS
Have you learned anything significant on the subject of faith lately, lightninboy?

[lightninboy]

No, I've been too busy dating women.

[agentangel]

Have Mark 11:23-24 and similar cross-referenced verses been used as the subject of writing? It's as good a subject as any, as to whether they apply to today or must be applied to their biblical settings. It's sort of "Is divine healing for today?" You could have a fiction story of a man who falls in love with a woman and claims her by faith but doesn't get her yet and naturally the situation affects his relationship with God and he feels that to date other women would be to deny that he will ever get this woman.You could call the story "Takin' 'er by Faith." I've never read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye," but that sounds kind of like the situation. Also, if we can get anything we want by faith, doesn't that put the Rapture on hold until we get it? I don't read Christian fiction or romance. Maybe this has been covered before. Feel free to use the idea.
Hi there!
What the heck was the name of that movie, starring "what's his name?" He played in many movies, "Liar, Liar", "The Mask", etc. Anyway, in this particular movie God allowed HIM to be God. So he set up an online prayer hotline thingy. Well, he got so many prayer requests that he couldn't keep up! So he simply clicked "Yes to all!" And that's when the REAL trouble began!:D
But seriously, I believe prayer requests have to be in line with God's will. Still, let's say a sick person wants to be healed. Surely, that MUST God's will! But then that person suddenly dies.:eek: So what went wrong? The only thing I can figure is that while God wanted, and COULD heal that person, He had another plan for reasons we sometimes don't understand. Somewhere in the Bible it says "The very hairs on your head are numbered." So, God has a plan. His will always supercedes our will, UNLESS we walk away and do our own thing, but then we have a real mess; at least I know I do! LOL
And the rapture... I'm still trying to decide if I'm pre, mid, or post trib! LOL