'Evangelicals' ripped for plugging Dems' abortion platform

[Xenia]

"So I think that what's happening right now is that God is showing us who the people are that we can count on -- and obviously these pro-aborts, like the ones you're mentioning here, are not people that can be counted on," the pro-life activist asserts. "They're heretics and they're liars."

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election2008/Default.aspx?id=210822

[PattyU]

Oh my goodness. One of the reasons I can't vote for Obama was because he wasn't to pay for abortions with tax money. I didn't know that he had opposed a bill (as a Senator) that would have protected the lives of children who survived botched abortion. How can anyone can defend that? Well, I saw how he defended it, by saying it would have weakened Roe V Wade. But really?

[Shellbiz]

Thanks for the link and exposing the wolves in sheep's clothing among us. These people with Obama at the helm are willing to sacrifice the preservation of human life on the altar of bleeding-heart, social issues. Their attempts to meet man's immediate "needs" as the be-all and end-all of all things even go to the extent of disallowing the smallest member of society their God-given right to life. If we let up on our tenacious effort to keep life sacred, replacing our morals with bandaid "solutions" to problems, we are on a slippery slope. It's like Hansel and Gretel's witch whose candy house appeals to the gratification of our flesh while plotting our doom in the boiling cauldron of child offering.

[writegirl1949]

I think there is much about Obama that we don't know.

[SkeeterFranklin]

There are way too many people who call themselves Christians and support abortion. They are, indeed, serpents beneath the wool. I argue with them constantly in my church, mostly women (I am one myself). They tell me that I am too single issue and that feeding the poor is more important. Fortunately my church (Catholic) defends right to life from the moment of conception and we pray for them in our Prayer of the Faithful every day.

[PattyU]

MaryGrace, I am surprised to hear that. I am no longer Catholic, but I was raised in the Catholic church. I am surprised a practicing Catholic would support abortion. I've met people, who were Catholic in name only, and it wouldn't surprise when they were pro-abortion. But as you said, the Catholic church is very pro-life.

[SkeeterFranklin]

Patty,
Unfortunately, there are Christians, no matter which denomination, who go to church and there are Christians who live their faith outside of church. Both would still be call practicing whatevers. It seems that some people can leave their faith on the church doorstep and not allow it to interfere with their life in society. They confuse tolerance with acceptance and call it compassion. It boggles my mind. When they try to trip me up by calling me hard-hearted, I always tell them that I am the same person outside of church that I am in it. The gospel of Jesus Christ doesn't end when the Book is closed.

[SkeeterFranklin]

Okay, now I'm really upset. I just read that John McCain is considering former governor Tom Ridge, who supports abortion, as his running mate. His reasoning? To court voters from the center of the argument. My son (23 years old) tells me it won't make a difference. But I am concerned that this will eventually change the republican platform to include abortion rights. Am I wrong?

[Shellbiz]

If McCain chooses a pro-death running mate, he will truly alienate the conservative Christian driving force that has thus far wavered in supporting him in the first place. I, for one, will never vote for someone who justifies the slaughter of little boys and girls in the womb. When President and Vice President come as a package, they better have one mind on that issue and it better be unequivocally pro-life (no exceptions) or they will be spot-on pro-death. There's no middle of the road, and if any Christian thinks that matters of literacy, poverty, health care, etc. eclipse the basic right to life, their values have become subservient to their superficiality.

[SkeeterFranklin]

Amen, Shellbiz! There's hope yet.

[PattyU]

I don't see how choosing a liberal running mate would help McCain. If someone wants a liberal President, they will vote for Obama. The main thing that McCain has going for him is that Obama is so liberal that he alienates some moderate voters.

MaryGrace, I know that attending church does not make one a Christian, regardless of the denomination. However, believing that abortion is fine seems like a very basic issue. I was Catholic until I was about 19, and since then I've attended non-denominationtal, conservative churches. I never heard any active member of church (Catholic or non-denominational) I've attended argue for abortion. It seems that it would go not only go against the church's teachings but also the cultural norms. I can see Christians arguing over something like premarital sex or homosexuality easier than abortion. I'm just surprised, that's all. I attended Catholic schools for 12 years and was probably taught more about the sanctity of life than any other issue or sin.

[Shellbiz]

There is great hope when people who see the truth do not give in to watered-down thinking that we can incrementalize our way to justice. We have to hold up the single issue when everything is at stake if it is eroded and made to look like water over the dam and beyond our vigilance. Hang in there, prolifers--our day is coming!
[By the way, Skeeter, my husband has a ministry that brings a gentle witness in front of Planned Parenthoods. We just set up a (Catholic) couple in front of one in Bemidji, Minn. who intend to hold signs in front of that hedonistic establishment to encourage onlookers, as well as those going in for its services, to have nothing to do with it.]

[kdawgs34]

Are their any conservative Democrats left? Maybe Heath Shuler.

Yes. McCain needs to pick a conservative.

www.myspace.com/ratedchristian

[ProfessorAlan]

As we found out in the Republican primary, nobody is conservative enough to please everyone in every area ....... the current administration is not terribly conservative in a number of areas.

And even were they are, a little competence would have been nice.

[Shellbiz]

I don't think it's a matter of pleasing people that is the point; I think it's actually a matter of doing the right thing that is most important. God is neither Republican nor conservative, because both of those factions are subject to corruption as much as any other party or ideology. That's why we have to look at politics for what it is--not salvation for man's problems, but a necessary, secular institution that needs to be subject to a higher law. As Christians, we have a commensurate responsibility to know God's nature so well that we will know the counterfeit when we see it. To me, the counterfeit is showing its ugly face amongst "Christians" who now think we should put our negativity behind us (i.e., standing against abortion, homosexuality) and redirect to a "higher call," addressing global issues (e.g.,"engaging the global giants of conflict, racism, corruption, poverty, pandemic diseases, illiteracy, ignorance" quoting from An Evangelical Manifesto)

[Xenia]

This is just my opinion. I'm not registered to any party but it doesn't seem to me that there is a republican party right now. I view McCain as a democrat. I view Obama as a socialist (to put it mildly).

[Shellbiz]

Yeah, I think he has some real Democratic Party platform leanings. In fact, I was involved in a writing class at a local university a couple of years ago which was mostly made up of the liberal-minded (a regular F. D. Rooselvelt/Kennedy/Clinton fan club), and they thought McCain really wasn't such a bad guy--that spoke tons.

[ProfessorAlan]

I ... and redirect to a "higher call," addressing global issues (e.g.,"engaging the global giants of conflict, racism, corruption, poverty, pandemic diseases, illiteracy, ignorance"

Are these not things a Christian worldview should address?

[Shellbiz]

I'm so glad you asked that question. It behooves us as Christians to do whatever we can to help those in need (our neighbors) both provincially and globally. I believe Christians have done most of the charitable giving in the world on both accords. And at present there are droves of Christians going on small missions' trips to help teach other peoples English (which those peoples are clamoring to learn) which is addressing illiteracy. I am all for rachetting up our reaching out in ways that help provide for those in our world who have so little and are in so much need.

The problem I have with the emphasis of the "Manifesto" and those who are speaking out for more attention to global issues is that they give NO, AND I MEAN NO, credit for those who have been working diligently to stave off the pervasive, immoral ills that are at our doorsteps. It's as if, and that's why I use the word "redirect," it doesn't mean a hill of beans to them whether they're (moral ills) exposed or not. We're barking up the wrong tree. We've been calling sin sin and we're the evil ones, because the world is not listening (supposedly). But I believe the world is listening, and we need to speak out, in Jesus' name, even louder pushing back the darkness. The Manifesto iteself said that we should not let others define what evangelicism is, and I so agree. It is a both/and quest that God's people are on, not an either/or. Prevailing against the darkness and reaching out to those in need are not mutually exclusive. We should bond together as Christians and see the courage of fellow brethren for what it is--a willingness to take the heat, not mean-spirited, self-aggrandizement, misrepresenting ourselves as Saviors of the worlds ills. Only Christ can do that. Only Christ can bring all these things to an end--I can't wait.

[NTG]

We've been calling sin sin and we're the evil ones. . .not only calling evil good, but calling good evil.

And if there's one thing they can't stand, it's intolerant people.

Nathanael

[SkeeterFranklin]

Originally by Shellbiz:
We've been calling sin sin and we're the evil ones,

Isn't there something in the Bible about this in regard to the last days that evil will be called good and people who persecute Jesus' disciples will think they are doing the will of God? I can't find it right now, but I will have to search it out.

[kshsj777]

I agree with a lot of what's been said in this thread. I'm not sure if I really have anything to add.