What if...

[Jeff Pate]

The Word of God says, For God has not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. [2 Timothy 1:7]

What if I said, "Sadly, because I see so many Christians who are not only powerless, but they live in rampant fear, I have concluded that this passage is NOT true. It must be like one of the products offered on infomercials that don't really work."

What would you say if I said, “I don’t believe that Jesus dealt with sin at all simply because I see so much sin in the world?”

Does what I see nullify what Jesus has done? Hardly…

So then, if the fact that people still sin doesn’t negate the fact that Jesus died for the sins of the world, then just because people still get sick, live in fear, are depressed, and are virtually powerless doesn’t mean that God hasn’t dealt with these things.

You may say, “If God has dealt completely with sickness, then no one would get sick.”

That's about as absurd as saying, “If God has dealt completely with sin, then no one would sin.”

If your unplugged television isn't working, does that mean there is no signal being broadcast?

Human experience does not negate the truth of God’s Word that says, "Let God be true, but every man a liar. [Romans 3:4]

We have to LET God be true in our lives and His truth, once we know it, will make us free. God's Word is only profitable to a person when they mix faith with it and this is why so many people "come short of" the promises of God.

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them, but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. [Hebrews 4:2]

Some may say, "I don't believe that."

Well, it won't work for you then...

If we are to live godly in this present world, then this means we are to live “like God” which is what godly means. Jesus lived “like God” and although He suffered rejection, persecution, mockery, and challenges from religious leaders, He did NOT suffer from sickness, fear, depression, powerlessness, or loss of hope.

In fact, the Word of God says that Jesus went about doing good and healing ALL that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. [Acts 10:38]

I am determined to base what I teach on the unchangeable TRUTH--the Word of God, and not on phenomenon or human experience.

[Don Quixote]

Removed.......

[kshsj777]

The Word of God says, For God has not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. [2 Timothy 1:7]

What if I said, "Sadly, because I see so many Christians who are not only powerless, but they live in rampant fear, I have concluded that this passage is NOT true. It must be like one of the products offered on infomercials that don't really work."

What would you say if I said, “I don’t believe that Jesus dealt with sin at all simply because I see so much sin in the world?”

Does what I see nullify what Jesus has done? Hardly…



First of all the context is not speaking about any type of physical healing. Rather the context is about Timothy's faith in the gospel.

Look at the whole passage:

5 For I am mindful of the sincere faith within you, which first dwelt in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am sure that it is in you as well.
6 For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.
7 For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline.
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God,
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
11 or which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.

Note what verse 8 says. It begins with “Therefore” referring to verse 7. It says, “Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord...”

So because God hasn't given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline, therefore we shouldn't be ashamed of the gospel. God has given us the courage and strength we need to proclaim the truth, the good news, the gospel that can save people from their ultimate enemy: sin and death.

Nowhere does this refer to physical healing. Instead of teaching people that they can heal themselves. you should be teaching them that by turning to Christ for salvation, they will receive healing from sin and death... and that in the next life to come, they will receive complete physical healing from God.



So then, if the fact that people still sin doesn’t negate the fact that Jesus died for the sins of the world, then just because people still get sick, live in fear, are depressed, and are virtually powerless doesn’t mean that God hasn’t dealt with these things.

You may say, “If God has dealt completely with sickness, then no one would get sick.”

That's about as absurd as saying, “If God has dealt completely with sin, then no one would sin.”

If your unplugged television isn't working, does that mean there is no signal being broadcast?


Actually you prove my point. God has dealt with sin but we still sin because our salvation is not yet complete. God has dealt with sickness too, but we still experience sickness because our salvation is not yet complete.



Human experience does not negate the truth of God’s Word that says, "Let God be true, but every man a liar. [Romans 3:4]

We have to LET God be true in our lives and His truth, once we know it, will make us free. God's Word is only profitable to a person when they mix faith with it and this is why so many people "come short of" the promises of God.

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them, but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. [Hebrews 4:2]

Let's look at the context again, please.

1 Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it.

2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
"AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,"
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";
5 and again in this passage, "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."
6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
7 He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
"TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.
9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
11 Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

Good news = the gospel. This passage is referring to the New Heavens and New Earth where we shall enter into a time of rest from sin and the curse. We must make sure that we are truly saved in order to enter into Heaven, and not be shocked to find out on judgment day that we weren't really followers of Jesus.

Once again the verse you quote has absolutely nothing to do with physical healing.



Some may say, "I don't believe that."

Well, it won't work for you then...



I believe in taking Scripture in its context. I try very hard to make sure I don't force my preconceptions on the text and make it say something that it doesn't say.


If we are to live godly in this present world, then this means we are to live “like God” which is what godly means. Jesus lived “like God” and although He suffered rejection, persecution, mockery, and challenges from religious leaders, He did NOT suffer from sickness, fear, depression, powerlessness, or loss of hope.


You are wrong. Jesus DID suffer from sickness.

Hebrew 2: 14-18

14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
15 and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.
16 For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham.
17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful )high priest in )things pertaining to God, to )make propitiation for the sins of the people.
18 For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

Luke 22

41 And He withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and began to pray,
42 saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."
43 Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him.
44 And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.

I would think this passage also demonstrates that Jesus had fear. Fear of being separated from His Father, when He turned His back on Him. Especially since He sweat drops of blood. But even if it doesn't, it's still obvious that Jesus had to experience sickness at some point in His life.

As for the other things you mentioned, He was God, so obviously He wouldn't suffer from powerlessness or loss of hope. As for depression, that's the same thing as loss of hope.

But we have to keep this in mind, God is omnipotent, we aren't.



In fact, the Word of God says that Jesus went about doing good and healing ALL that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. [Acts 10:38]

There is no indication that Jesus used His healing powers before He was baptized and called into His ministry. Since He was human, He would have suffered from sickness just like everyone else. (The Hebrews 2 passage I quoted earlier) I guess once His ministry started, He could've decided to heal Himself if necessary, but Scriptures don't record any case of that happening. Other than obviously, when He raised Himself from the dead



I am determined to base what I teach on the unchangeable TRUTH--the Word of God, and not on phenomenon or human experience.

First of all, human experience cannot contradict God's Word. Reality is reality, whether it is God's Word and or our observations. Obviously our interpretations could be wrong and whenever we think there is a contradiction, God's Word prevails.

But the fact we get sick is not sinful. Jesus never rebuked anyone who came to Him for healing telling them to heal themselves. Rather His ministry shows that only He is the ultimate sourcing of healing. If God chooses to heal people here and now, that is His choice and His doing. We don't have the ability to heal ourselves. All we can do is ask God, and accept whatever He decides is best for us.

Again, I ask you to read the Bible and study what it says. All references to God's promises of physical healing refer to the New Heavens and New Earth when we receive our new resurrection bodies. Never does God promise we'll be healed from sickness in this life.

[Derby]

'You are wrong. Jesus DID suffer from sickness [Hebrew 2: 14-18]'

To me, this passage does not seem to say that Jesus suffered a sickness.
He was both human and divine and because he was human he was liable to be sick, but I can't think of a Bible passage where it says he was actually sick at any time.

[kshsj777]

Well it has to take great emotional stress at least for someone to "sweat drops of blood."

But even so, since Jesus was human, He would have had to been sick sometime. I don't know of anybody that hasn't gotten sick sometime in their life and I don't think Jesus would have been any exception.

[Jeff Pate]

Dear KS,

I've put your comments in pink.

I commend you on your knowledge of Scripture, but it appears you're not seeing it through the lens of love. The religious Jews knew the Scriptures like the back of their hands, but yet when the TRUTH stood before them, they didn't recognize Him. In the Lord's words, it was because they did not have the love of God in them (read John 5:36-47).

Now, I'm not saying that you don't know God's love or that you're like the Pharisees of the Lord's day. I'm saying that by not having full revelation of God's love, one can be deceived by the Scriptures. Yes, I said you can be deceived by the Scriptures just like the Jews were. I’ve written articles called "Perception is Reality" and "Losing Your Religion" (http://www.bovministries.net/As_He_Is_Series.html) on my web site, and if you read them you will see that although God is who He is regardless of what we believe about Him, our relationship with Him is based on our perception of Him. In fact, the Word of God teaches that the fullness of God comes through "knowing intimately" the love of Christ (Ephesians 3:14-21).D

God clearly reveals in the Word of God that He wants us to know His will (Colossians 1:9), to understand His will (Ephesians 5:17), and to know the things that are freely given to us of God (1 Corinthians 2:12). Why? Because He does not want us to be spoiled through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. [Colossians 2:8]

"Spoiled" means to be stripped of all wealth as when a conquering army "spoiled" a defeated country of all their wealth. Traditions of men (religion) and rudiments of the world (man's experiences) strip us of our inheritance in Christ. I see this so prevalently among Christians. They've been stripped through a religious philosophy that is NOT after Christ.

Good news = the gospel. This passage is referring to the New Heavens and New Earth where we shall enter into a time of rest from sin and the curse.

Was healing not part of the gospel Jesus commissioned His disciples to preach? Healing is as much a part of the gospel as forgiveness of sins. If healing were not the will of God, then why did Jesus command His disciples--not only the twelve, but also the seventy He sent out later--to heal the sick as they preached the gospel? Why would the Lord's ministry after His ascension be worse than His ministry before His death and resurrection, under this "better covenant" we have in Christ? Jesus commissioned His disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdom, heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils; freely you have received, freely give. [Matthew 10:7-8] See also Luke 9:1-2; Luke 10:9; Mark 6:13; John 14:12.

As I said previously, Jesus delivered us from sin, and also the effects of sin. Healing of diseases is just as much a part of the Lord’s atonement as forgiveness of sins and regeneration of the spirit. (Psalm 103:3; Isaiah 53:4-5; Matthew 8:16-17; 1 Peter 2:24; Mark 2:1-11; John 3:14/Numbers 21:9)

If He destroyed the root, then He also destroyed the fruit.

Furthermore, the Scripture in Hebrews 4 encourages us to let us therefore labor to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. If there were no REST in this present world, then the Word of God would not encourage us to labor to enter into it, rather that we should simply wait for it. The REST promised in the Old Testament (as this passage teaches) was referring to the REST we would have in Christ… what God having provided some better thing for us…

Jesus said that all who come to Him would receive REST, so it is a clear conclusion that this rest is not only for the New Heavens and earth, but for this present world. Otherwise, the Lord would not have commanded the disciples to pray, Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Let us remember that the kingdom of God is NOT about going to heaven, but about Christ coming to earth and bringing the kingdom to us. Eternal life is by definition straight from the mouth of Jesus, This is eternal life, that they might know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. [John 17:3] The Word of God says that we now have eternal life (1 John 5:11-13; 20)

Once again the verse you quote has absolutely nothing to do with physical healing.

While this verse does not mention healing specifically, this verse talks about mixing faith with the gospel that Jesus not only preached, but demonstrated through physical healing of ALL sickness among ALL the people who came to Him. No promise of God can be realized without faith.

We see, from almost every conceivable angle throughout the Scriptures, that there is no doctrine more clearly taught than it is God's will to heal all who have need of healing so that they may fulfill the number of their days according to His promise. Of course, we mean all who are properly taught and who meet the conditions prescribed in the Word. Now I hear someone say, "If healing is for all, then we shall never die." Why not? Divine healing goes no further than the promise of God. He does not promise that we shall never die (physically), but He says:

I will take sickness away from the midst of thee… the number of thy days I will fulfill. [Exodus 23:25, 26]

The days of our years are threescore years and ten (70 years). [Psalm 90:10]

Take me not away in the midst of my days. [Psalm 102:24]

Why shouldest thou died before thy time? [Ecclesiastes 7:17]

In a statement... other than reconciliation with God/salvation/forgiveness of sins, there is no greater revelation in the Word of God than the revelation of God's will to heal everyone of all sickness. Psalm 103 says, who forgives ALL your iniquities; who heals ALL your diseases...

One cannot read the gospels and deny the importance of healing to the Lord Jesus—and for this Old Testament promise to be realized in this present world. Physical healing during the ministry of Jesus (and later continued by the church and not just the apostles) was NOT a picture or parable of good things to come, but of the reality that the kingdom of God had arrived in the body of Jesus Christ. If it were any kind of picture, it would be that what Jesus did for individuals was for them, but what He did at the cross where He bore our sicknesses (Matthew 8:17) would be FOR ALL.

Otherwise, healing of all sickness and disease and other ailments would not have continued after the Lord’s ascension into heaven. Jesus said, Verily, verily I say unto you, He who believes in me, the works that I do shall he do, and greater works than these shall he do because I go to my Father. [John 14:12] It is obvious that the Lord was talking about continuing His ministry of preaching the kingdom of God, which included physical healing.

The Lord also said, It is expedient (profitable) for you that I go away. For if I go not away, the Comforter will come to you, but if I depart, I will send him to you. [John 16:7] How can it be profitable for us for the Lord to have removed an integral part of His earthly ministry of healing? How can it be that the Lord’s earthly ministry is worse after His death and resurrection than His ministry now using the same Spirit through us?

Christ who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father. [Galatians 1:4]

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, according as his divine power has given unto us ALL THINGS THAT PERTAIN TO LIFE AND GODLINESS through the knowledge of him who has called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [2 Peter 1:2-4] Escaped is in the past tense...

Beloved, I wish above ALL THINGS that you may prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers. [3 John 2]

Actually you prove my point. God has dealt with sin but we still sin because our salvation is not yet complete. God has dealt with sickness too, but we still experience sickness because our salvation is not yet complete.

This is what I was talking about. You have exalted the fact the since we still sin that what Jesus has done has not empowered us to live free from sin. You have chosen human experience over the Truth of the Word of God. What it does is reveal that you believe that just because our salvation is not complete—in spirit, soul, and body, that we are not capable of living a life without sin having dominion over us. This is not what the Scriptures teach.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. [Galatians 5:16]

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body that you obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield your members as instruments of righteousness unto sin; but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin SHALL NOT have dominion over you; for you are not under the law, but under grace. [Romans 6:12-14]

He who says he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he (Jesus) walked. [1 John 2:6]

He who has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he (Jesus) is also pure. [1 John 3:3]

For you are bought with a price. Therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s. [1 Corinthians 6:20]

And here's a passage you're familiar with... There has no temptation taken you but such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation also make an escape, that you may be able to bear it. [1 Corinthians 10:13]

You may be thinking of Romans 7... this was not a license to sin because even the great Paul couldn't control himself, but this is a teaching on what happens when a person lives under the bondage of the law. For space's sake, I won't elaborate, but if you'd like to hear what the Lord has shown me, I'll be happy to share.

If the Lord has made our salvation complete enough for us to walk as Jesus walked, which was completely free from sin in our bodies, then He has also made our healing complete enough so that we would be free from sickness as well. Again, this has more to do with faith in God’s word rather than the experience and/or philosophies of man. In order for these truths to profit you, you MUST believe them. As I wrote, if you don't believe this, then it won't work for you because God does not force His grace upon anyone.

Nowhere does this refer to physical healing. Instead of teaching people that they can heal themselves. you should be teaching them that by turning to Christ for salvation, they will receive healing from sin and death... and that in the next life to come, they will receive complete physical healing from God.

First of all, I’m not teaching that people can “heal themselves or anyone else” using their own power. I am teaching, however, that we who are in Christ have been given the power to heal sicknesses in Jesus’ name/authority. You may not like that either, but let’s take a look at what Jesus told the disciples… And as you go preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils, freely you have received, freely give. [Matthew 10:7-8]

Now wait a second… what did Jesus say? He told US to “heal the sick” NOT ask God to heal the sick for them. He told them, “I have freely given you power to heal all manner of sickness and disease, so now go and preach the kingdom and heal the sick.” Let’s look at another example—of Peter. Peter told the lame man at the temple gate, Silver and gold have I none, but such as I have I give unto you…in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. [Acts 3:6]

Wait a second… Did Peter just say that HE had the power to heal this man??? That’s right… he certainly did. This power wasn’t Peter’s power or holiness (as he would explain in Acts 3:12) that made this man well, but that it was the power of Jesus whom they had crucified.

Hey, healing someone opened the door for Peter and John to tell people about Jesus and salvation. What a novel approach to evangelism!!!

There is NO better way to tell and demonstrate the good news of Jesus than to heal the sick. It’s sad that the church believes Christ’s ministry was “sub-par” because He used healing like it was going out of style. There are a number of places in the Bible where it said, HE HEALED THEM ALL. Healing was the Lord’s greatest evangelistic tool—to reveal and manifest the Father’s will for all of mankind. To criticize the ministry of healing as an integral part of evangelism today is to criticize our Lord’s own ministry. The arrogance of them who do such things… to think that we can preach the gospel better without healing than Jesus did with healing!

You as a born again Christian have the power to heal sickness in the name of Jesus. However, like your house, you won’t benefit by the power of electricity until you plug in your appliances and turn them on. God has supplied the power, but it’s up to you to work it, which is why the Scripture says, Now unto him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all you ask or think, according to the power that works in you. [Ephesians 3:20]


You are wrong. Jesus DID suffer from sickness.

The only sickness the Lord was “touched with the feeling of” was OUR sicknesses and diseases when He took them upon Himself. He bore OUR fear, OUR grief, OUR sorrows, OUR sins, OUR sicknesses, OUR iniquities. He had none of these of His own and so in order to be touched with these feelings—referring to compassion, not identification—He suffered OUR iniquities.

Surely he has borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows. Yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities. The chastisement of our peace (shalom, which refers to rest, healing, health, prosperity) was upon him; and with his stripes we are (present tense) healed.

The condition of sweating blood you mention referred to a condition due to stress, and was temporary. Jesus did NOT fear man or death. Otherwise, this was sin because He commanded us to FEAR NOT… Your stretching of what is NOT even inferred in the Scriptures provides justification for your theology that you are to remain in your condition, while if Jesus were here, He would tell you to [I]Rise, take up your bed and walk. [John 5:8]

The man in this case was begging for sympathy, and “waiting” for God to do something—waiting on the movement of the water, but Jesus, after asking him if he wanted to be made whole, told him simply to get up. This is what the Lord is saying to those who are sick, “Rise, take up your bed and walk!” How can one be thoroughly furnished unto every good work (2 Timothy 2:21; 3:17) while they’re in bed with sickness? How can one glorify God in their body while being sick in the hospital?

As sin is sickness in the spirit, sickness is sin to the body. You may not like that, but it’s true. And I'm not condemning you or anyone who's been sick or is sick. This is the most common objection to the teaching of healing... that teachers who preach healing are saying that the sick are living in sin. I'm NOT saying that, but what I am saying is that a Christian who ignores or resists the truths of the word of God will not profit from God's promises. And because we have been redeemed from both, we can be free from both.

The LORD said, My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. [Hosea 4:6]

But the fact we get sick is not sinful. Jesus never rebuked anyone who came to Him for healing telling them to heal themselves. Rather His ministry shows that only He is the ultimate sourcing of healing. If God chooses to heal people here and now, that is His choice and His doing. We don't have the ability to heal ourselves. All we can do is ask God, and accept whatever He decides is best for us.


To say that Jesus did not rebuke anyone who came to Him for healing is not correct. Surely, the Lord didn’t criticize anyone for being sick, but rather He gave correction to those who did not have the correct theology.

It is this same Jesus who corrected a leper's theology concerning God's will when he asked, If you will, you can heal me.' And Jesus put forth his hand and touched him, saying, 'I will; be clean.' And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. [Matthew 8:1-3]

The Lord also corrected a father’s theology after the disciples failed to affect a cure for his son, … but if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us. Jesus said to him, If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes. [Mark 9:22-23]

This incident also proves that it is still God’s will to heal even when His accredited representatives fail to bring forth healing.

In fact, the Lord harshly scolded His disciples for failing to represent the Father as He did—and as He had empowered them to do. O faithless and perverse generation! How long shall I be with you; how long shall I suffer you? Bring him to me. [Matthew 17:17]

The disciples were not attempting to do something they had not previously been authorized to do, which was heal the sick, cast out demons… (Matthew 10:8). In fact, this is the reason the father had brought the boy “to them” in the absence of Jesus. They were the Lord’s representatives—ambassadors, which is what the Church is supposed to be. Sadly, the Lord is saying the very same thing to those who do not represent Him as He did the Father: O faithless and perverse (contrary) generation!

[kshsj777]

Was healing not part of the gospel Jesus commissioned His disciples to preach? Healing is as much a part of the gospel as forgiveness of sins. If healing were not the will of God, then why did Jesus command His disciples--not only the twelve, but also the seventy He sent out later--to heal the sick as they preached the gospel? Why would the Lord's ministry after His ascension be worse than His ministry before His death and resurrection, under this "better covenant" we have in Christ? Jesus commissioned His disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdom, heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils; freely you have received, freely give. [Matthew 10:7-8] See also Luke 9:1-2; Luke 10:9; Mark 6:13; John 14:12.

As I said previously, Jesus delivered us from sin, and also the effects of sin. Healing of diseases is just as much a part of the Lord’s atonement as forgiveness of sins and regeneration of the spirit. (Psalm 103:3; Isaiah 53:4-5; Matthew 8:16-17; 1 Peter 2:24; Mark 2:1-11; John 3:14/Numbers 21:9)

If He destroyed the root, then He also destroyed the fruit.

The main reason Jesus healed people was to prove that He was who He said He was. He was proving that He was God and the Messiah. Similarly, the apostles were given gifts of healing, prophecy etc to prove their authority and that what they said came from God.



Furthermore, the Scripture in Hebrews 4 encourages us to let us therefore labor to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. If there were no REST in this present world, then the Word of God would not encourage us to labor to enter into it, rather that we should simply wait for it. The REST promised in the Old Testament (as this passage teaches) was referring to the REST we would have in Christ… what God having provided some better thing for us…

But we can't just “wait” either. When author of Hebrews urges us to strive to enter, that would also be a warning to unbelievers that if they don't trust in Christ, they won't enter God's rest. Heaven doesn't come automatic.



Jesus said that all who come to Him would receive REST, so it is a clear conclusion that this rest is not only for the New Heavens and earth, but for this present world. Otherwise, the Lord would not have commanded the disciples to pray, Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.


It would still be talking about the New Earth/New Heavens since God's will will only be done on Earth then. It certainly isn't being done completely here on Earth.


Let us remember that the kingdom of God is NOT about going to heaven, but about Christ coming to earth and bringing the kingdom to us.
I completely agree with this statement.



We see, from almost every conceivable angle throughout the Scriptures, that there is no doctrine more clearly taught than it is God's will to heal all who have need of healing so that they may fulfill the number of their days according to His promise. Of course, we mean all who are properly taught and who meet the conditions prescribed in the Word. Now I hear someone say, "If healing is for all, then we shall never die." Why not? Divine healing goes no further than the promise of God. He does not promise that we shall never die (physically), but He says:

I will take sickness away from the midst of thee… the number of thy days I will fulfill. [Exodus 23:25, 26]

The days of our years are threescore years and ten (70 years). [Psalm 90:10]

Take me not away in the midst of my days. [Psalm 102:24]

Why shouldest thou died before thy time? [Ecclesiastes 7:17]

Again, I think you are taking these verses out of context.

Exodus 23: 20-26

20"Behold, I am going to send an angel before you to guard you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared.
21"Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; (o not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him.
22"But if you truly obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.
23"For My angel will go before you and bring you in to the land of the Amorites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Canaanites, the Hivites and the Jebusites; and I will completely destroy them.
24"You shall not worship their gods, nor serve them, nor do according to their deeds; but you shall utterly overthrow them and break their sacred pillars in pieces.
25"But you shall serve the LORD your God, and He will bless your bread and your water; and I will remove sickness from your midst.
26"There shall be no one miscarrying or barren in your land; I will fulfill the number of your days.

God is referring to the promise He made with Israel during that time in history. It's not something that God promised for all believers and in all ages. Plus, this was conditional on Israel's faithfulness, but they kept falling away from Him.

Exodus 23
Psalm 102: 23-24

23 He has weakened my strength in the way;
He has shortened my days.
24 I say, "O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days,
Your years are throughout all generations.

The verse before it refers to God shortening his days!

Ecclesiastes 7:16-17
16 Do not be excessively righteous and do not )be overly wise. Why should you ruin yourself?
17 Do not be excessively wicked and do not be a fool. Why should you die before your time?

Here Solomon is saying that as a general rule, the wicked die early and the righteous live long. Here it is moral choices that affect death, not any type of sickness.

None of the verses you quoted say anything about God promising good health during the believer's life.



In a statement... other than reconciliation with God/salvation/forgiveness of sins, there is no greater revelation in the Word of God than the revelation of God's will to heal everyone of all sickness. Psalm 103 says, who forgives ALL your iniquities; who heals ALL your diseases...

This is David praising God for all the wonderful things He's done. This isn't a verse saying that God heals everyone of everything or even just believers.



One cannot read the gospels and deny the importance of healing to the Lord Jesus—and for this Old Testament promise to be realized in this present world. Physical healing during the ministry of Jesus (and later continued by the church and not just the apostles) was NOT a picture or parable of good things to come, but of the reality that the kingdom of God had arrived in the body of Jesus Christ. If it were any kind of picture, it would be that what Jesus did for individuals was for them, but what He did at the cross where He bore our sicknesses (Matthew 8:17) would be FOR ALL.

Otherwise, healing of all sickness and disease and other ailments would not have continued after the Lord’s ascension into heaven. Jesus said, Verily, verily I say unto you, He who believes in me, the works that I do shall he do, and greater works than these shall he do because I go to my Father. [John 14:12] It is obvious that the Lord was talking about continuing His ministry of preaching the kingdom of God, which included physical healing.

The Lord also said, It is expedient (profitable) for you that I go away. For if I go not away, the Comforter will come to you, but if I depart, I will send him to you. [John 16:7] How can it be profitable for us for the Lord to have removed an integral part of His earthly ministry of healing? How can it be that the Lord’s earthly ministry is worse after His death and resurrection than His ministry now using the same Spirit through us?

Christ who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father. [Galatians 1:4]




I agree that physical healing IS one of the things that Christ died for. But you see, He primarily died to take away sin, because sin and the curse is what is responsible for physical pain and suffering (along with all other forms of suffering). But as I said before, that physical healing doesn't always come in this life. And even then it is temporary. We have been saved, we are being saved and we will be saved. This is part of the already and not yet paradox.



Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, according as his divine power has given unto us ALL THINGS THAT PERTAIN TO LIFE AND GODLINESS through the knowledge of him who has called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [2 Peter 1:2-4] Escaped is in the past tense... [/QUOTE]

I don't see what this has to do with physical healing again. All things that pertain to life and godliness refer to power over sin, not power over sickness.


Beloved, I wish above ALL THINGS that you may prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers. [3 John 2]

This is an apostle writing to a friend of his; it's part of his greeting. Who among us wouldn't want our friends and family to be healthy and tell them that? That doesn't mean God is promising to heal us.



You have exalted the fact the since we still sin that what Jesus has done has not empowered us to live free from sin. You have chosen human experience over the Truth of the Word of God. What it does is reveal that you believe that just because our salvation is not complete—in spirit, soul, and body, that we are not capable of living a life without sin having dominion over us. This is not what the Scriptures teach.



You misunderstand me. I believe that God has given us the power to live free from sin. And yes, our salvation is not complete. That is why we still sin. This is the same conundrum that Paul faced.
Romans 7:14-25

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, (AJ)I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of (the law of sin which is in my members.
24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.



You may be thinking of Romans 7... this was not a license to sin because even the great Paul couldn't control himself, but this is a teaching on what happens when a person lives under the bondage of the law. For space's sake, I won't elaborate, but if you'd like to hear what the Lord has shown me, I'll be happy to share.

No, but this passage shows that we still battle our flesh in this life, and we are not perfect until we die.



If the Lord has made our salvation complete enough for us to walk as Jesus walked, which was completely free from sin in our bodies, then He has also made our healing complete enough so that we would be free from sickness as well. Again, this has more to do with faith in God’s word rather than the experience and/or philosophies of man. In order for these truths to profit you, you MUST believe them. As I wrote, if you don't believe this, then it won't work for you because God does not force His grace upon anyone.

There were times when Jesus healed people who never came to faith in Him. They just wanted His healing, not Him. Again, God does not promise physical healing in this life. Only in the next life.


First of all, I’m not teaching that people can “heal themselves or anyone else” using their own power. I am teaching, however, that we who are in Christ have been given the power to heal sicknesses in Jesus’ name/authority. You may not like that either, but let’s take a look at what Jesus told the disciples… And as you go preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils, freely you have received, freely give. [Matthew 10:7-8]

Now wait a second… what did Jesus say? He told US to “heal the sick” NOT ask God to heal the sick for them. He told them, “I have freely given you power to heal all manner of sickness and disease, so now go and preach the kingdom and heal the sick.” Let’s look at another example—of Peter. Peter told the lame man at the temple gate, Silver and gold have I none, but such as I have I give unto you…in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. [Acts 3:6]

Wait a second… Did Peter just say that HE had the power to heal this man??? That’s right… he certainly did. This power wasn’t Peter’s power or holiness (as he would explain in Acts 3:12) that made this man well, but that it was the power of Jesus whom they had crucified.

First Jesus gave His apostles the power to heal to establish their authority, as I said earlier. And secondly, Peter didn't say he had the power to heal this man. He said “In the name of Jesus Christ.”

And even if God still gave people the ability to heal, the Scriptures make it clear that only some were given that ability, not all.

The apostles were given special gifts in a special time where we did not have God's Word in full, because there needed to be a way for the apostles to prove that they were from God.



There is NO better way to tell and demonstrate the good news of Jesus than to heal the sick. It’s sad that the church believes Christ’s ministry was “sub-par” because He used healing like it was going out of style. There are a number of places in the Bible where it said, HE HEALED THEM ALL. Healing was the Lord’s greatest evangelistic tool—to reveal and manifest the Father’s will for all of mankind. To criticize the ministry of healing as an integral part of evangelism today is to criticize our Lord’s own ministry. The arrogance of them who do such things… to think that we can preach the gospel better without healing than Jesus did with healing!

You as a born again Christian have the power to heal sickness in the name of Jesus. However, like your house, you won’t benefit by the power of electricity until you plug in your appliances and turn them on. God has supplied the power, but it’s up to you to work it, which is why the Scripture says, Now unto him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all you ask or think, according to the power that works in you. [Ephesians 3:20]



Again the Bible does not say that every Christian has the ability to heal sickness, even if it is by using God's power.


The man in this case was begging for sympathy, and “waiting” for God to do something—waiting on the movement of the water, but Jesus, after asking him if he wanted to be made whole, told him simply to get up. This is what the Lord is saying to those who are sick, “Rise, take up your bed and walk!” How can one be thoroughly furnished unto every good work (2 Timothy 2:21; 3:17) while they’re in bed with sickness? How can one glorify God in their body while being sick in the hospital?

The only reason the man could rise, take up his bed and walk, was because Jesus healed him.

God can be glorified by someone in an hospital. Just off the top of my head I'm going to point out the case of mistaken identity with Whitney Cerak and Laura VanRyn. It took a long time for Whitney to get better, and she wasn't miraculously healed all at once like in Bible times.

Yet that glorified God. Look at the remarkable testimony those two families have been to the US and to the world? If that accident had never happened, then there might have been someone who wouldn't have heard the gospel but yet through this, they did.

I think I said this before. What brings God greater glory? When people can get well anytime they want if they have enough faith? Or someone that trusts God and believes in Him even the midst of such horrible tragedy?

God uses horrible circumstances to bring people to Him. He's a God who doesn't promise to do away with all your troubles, but instead He promises to get you through them, to give you the strength you need to keep on going.


As sin is sickness in the spirit, sickness is sin to the body. You may not like that, but it’s true. And I'm not condemning you or anyone who's been sick or is sick. This is the most common objection to the teaching of healing... that teachers who preach healing are saying that the sick are living in sin. I'm NOT saying that, but what I am saying is that a Christian who ignores or resists the truths of the word of God will not profit from God's promises. And because we have been redeemed from both, we can be free from both.

The LORD said, My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. [Hosea 4:6]

But the Bible does not teach what you're saying.



To say that Jesus did not rebuke anyone who came to Him for healing is not correct. Surely, the Lord didn’t criticize anyone for being sick, but rather He gave correction to those who did not have the correct theology.

Please tell me, give me a reference, where Jesus did rebuke someone who genuinely came to Him asking for healing?



It is this same Jesus who corrected a leper's theology concerning God's will when he asked, If you will, you can heal me.' And Jesus put forth his hand and touched him, saying, 'I will; be clean.' And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. [Matthew 8:1-3]

Notice that the man said “If You will.”

That is exactly what we do when we pray for healing. “If You will.”


The Lord also corrected a father’s theology after the disciples failed to affect a cure for his son, … but if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us. Jesus said to him, If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes. [Mark 9:22-23]

This incident also proves that it is still God’s will to heal even when His accredited representatives fail to bring forth healing.

21 And He asked his father, "How long has this been happening to him?" And he said, "From childhood.
22 "It has often thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, take pity on us and help us!"
23 And Jesus said to him, " 'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes."
24 Immediately the boy's father cried out and said, "I do believe; help my unbelief."

If you can take that verse to mean all Christians today can be healed, then you can take it to mean that we can have omnipotence. Since it does say “all things”

Instead, it would make more sense to say that if we ask according to the Father's will, it will be done. We know from other passages that the only source of supernatural power is God or the devil/demons. And God does what He thinks is best, not what we think is best.



In fact, the Lord harshly scolded His disciples for failing to represent the Father as He did—and as He had empowered them to do. O faithless and perverse generation! How long shall I be with you; how long shall I suffer you? Bring him to me. [Matthew 17:17]

The disciples were not attempting to do something they had not previously been authorized to do, which was heal the sick, cast out demons… (Matthew 10:8). In fact, this is the reason the father had brought the boy “to them” in the absence of Jesus. They were the Lord’s representatives—ambassadors, which is what the Church is supposed to be. Sadly, the Lord is saying the very same thing to those who do not represent Him as He did the Father: O faithless and perverse (contrary) generation!

Again, this incident doesn't mean that all Christians today can be healed of their sicknesses.

In each case where people were healed in the Bible, they had to be healed by God or by one of His prophets/apostles. Never is there a case where someone could just heal themselves (even with God's power) whenever they wanted. Nowhere does God promise that He will physically heal us in this life. He does heal, but whether He chooses to and on His timetable, not on ours.

[Derby]

Jeff Pate

Thanks for your challenging post about what our good Lord desires for us.

'[Jesus] did NOT suffer from sickness'

Jesus could have healed himself of a cold, but would he have thought it appropriate?
He could have changed stones to bread, but he did not,
Are you saying that he would not have caught the cold in the first place?
It seems feasible that Jesus never suffered sickness, but I don't think that you have yet showed it from Scripture.

'because we have been redeemed from both, we can be free from both [sin and sickness].'

What 'categories' of 'sickness' do you mean?
What 'sicknesses' have you seen people healed of, through faith in God's healing power?

Many Christians will have some ailment.
Paul had a 'thorn in the flesh', perhaps we don't know what it was, God would not remove it.
I have a damaged left lung, from too much heavy work landscaping, a resultant susceptibility to chest infections.
My wife has deterioration of her spine, caused by physical trauma, four births and probably some natural ageing - causing her a lot of pain on bad days.
Our nephew has terminal cancer of the pancreas and liver.

I follow the discussion with interest, love

Derby

[Jeff Pate]

Thanks so much for your comments.

Jesus could have healed himself of a cold, but would he have thought it appropriate?
He could have changed stones to bread, but he did not,
Are you saying that he would not have caught the cold in the first place?
It seems feasible that Jesus never suffered sickness, but I don't think that you have yet showed it from Scripture.

Yes, if Jesus would have gotten a cold, it would have been appropriate for Him to be healed (heal Himself) because it was the Father's will, and Jesus always did what pleased the Father. Physical healing blesses the Lord, which is why David said, Bless the LORD O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: who forgives all your iniquities; who heals all your diseases... [Psalm 103:1-2]

Remembering all of God's benefits blesses the Father...

Simply because the Scripture does not mention Jesus was ever sick makes it very clear in light of what some people claim... that the reason we get sick is because Jesus got sick. If this were such an important piece of information for us to know, it is surprisingly absent from the Word of God. The only sin, sickness and iniquity Jesus suffered from was ours when He took them upon Himself. He had no grief or sorrow or sin or sickness or any iniquity of His own to bear, and if He did, He would not have qualified as our High Priest because only an unspotted sacrifice was acceptable to God for an atonement for sins. If Jesus had ANY iniquity in Him, He could not make atonement for all of us. (Hebrews 7)

Since you brought up the temptation, let us remember that first the temptation in the wilderness was NOT to turn stones into bread, or to jump off the top of the temple, or to worship the devil, but rather, the temptation was to doubt what the Father had said to Him--to doubt God's word.

The devil said, If you are the Son of God... on two occasions, immediately after the Father spoke from heaven saying, This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased. [Matthew 3:17]

The devil didn't say BECAUSE you are the Son of God... he said, IF, indicating the foundation of ALL temptation is in doubting what God has said. This is what led to mankind's fall when the serpent cast doubt on God's word. As I said, the genesis of sin is in doubting of God's word. I have a great teaching on the temptation in my book By the Grace of God I Am What I Am (http://www.bovministries.net/I_Am_What_I_Am.html) if you'd like to hear more.

So then, the temptation was to doubt God's word, which is why the Lord responded with, It is written... with His first response to the stones to bread by saying, It is written that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. [Matthew 4:4]

What does the Scripture say also about God's word concerning healing? He sent his word and healed them and delivered them from all their destructions. [Psalm 107:20]

Jesus was the Word made flesh, so if healing is in God's word, then surely Jesus partook in everything that makes up God's word.

You asked whether the Lord would have even gotten sick in the first place... Yes, I'm saying that... NOT because He wasn't capable or subject to being sick like the rest of us, but because Jesus operated in perfect faith ALL THE TIME, sickness had no place in Him.

The Word of God not only provides healing of ALL MANNER OF SICKNESS, DISEASE, AILMENTS, BLINDNESS, DEAFNESS, RETARDATION, LAMENESS, REPRODUCTIVE INABILITIES, BODY DEFORMITIES, MENTAL ILLNESS, etc. but the Word of God also provides protection from these things as well:

He that dwells in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. Surely he shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. He shall cover you with his feathers, and under his wings shall you trust: his truth shall be your shield and buckler. You shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flies by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wastes at noonday. A thousand shall fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand; but it shall not come near you. Only with your eyes shall you behold and see the reward of the wicked. Because you have made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, your habitation; There shall no evil befall you, neither shall any plague come near your dwelling. For he shall give his angels charge over you, to keep thee in all your ways. They shall bear you up in their hands, lest you dash your foot against a stone... Because he has set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he has known my name. He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him. With long life will I satisfy him, and show him my salvation. [Psalm 91]

The Word of God is talking about the person who dwells in the secret place of the most High... where or who is this talking about? It's talking about Christ... He is the mystery that was hidden from the foundations of the world... the Christ in you the hope of glory (Colossians 1:25-27). The secret place of the most High is in Christ, in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, and since we are in Christ, we too dwell or abide (John 15) in the secret place of the most High.

The Word of God says that the person who dwells in Christ and says... oh, this is so important... you have to say this, confess it as well as believe it. Jesus said, By your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned. [Matthew 12:37] The Bible says, We having the same spirit of faith according as it is written, I have believed, and therefore I have spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak. [2 Corinthians 4:13]

The person in Christ has to say, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. And then, based on the fact that you believe his truth shall be your shield and buckler you are covered, protected, delivered from the following:

~You shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flies by day;

~Nor for the pestilence that walks in darkness; nor for the destruction that wastes at noonday... but it shall not come near you

~Only with your eyes shall you behold and see the reward of the wicked. Sickness is a reward of the wicked as it is part of the curse (Deut. 28) Therefore, you will only look and see with your eyes even though a thousand shall fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand.

~There shall no evil befall you, neither shall any plague come near your dwelling. This sounds very clear to me... NO plague shall come near my dwelling. As sin is an intruder so is sickness.

~ With long life will I satisfy him, and show him my salvation. Moses, who wrote this Psalm, also wrote that the span of man's life is 70 years, but he lived to be 120 years, so we know that the 70 is a minimum--not a maximum. Therefore, this is a promise to the Christian who believes that they will have long life of at least 70 years. The Bible says to the person who does not forget God's law, and lets his heart keep His commandments, that he will have length of days and long life (Proverbs 3:1-2).

If we have been given the power to resist sin and the devil, surely because sickness is a fruit of sin, that we would also have the power to resist sickness. The Bible says that the Word of God is to the person who is attentive to God's Word and inclines his ear to His sayings, life to those that find them, and health to all their flesh. [Proverbs 4:20-22]

Not only is this referring to healing, but also health, which means that you don't get sick. Jesus said that we would have power against all the power of the enemy, and mentioned dominion over serpents and scorpions, and that nothing shall by any means hurt you. [Luke 10:19] The Lord also said, I pray not that you should take them out of the world, but that you should keep them from the evil. [John 17:15]

One may want to interject the fates of many Christian martyrs who submitted to death for the sake of Christ and the gospel. First of all, we have not been redeemed from persecution, but I challenge you to find an instance in the Bible where God has commanded (not prophesied as in the case of Peter) a person to die for the sake of the gospel. You hear people say they would be willing to do so as in the case of Paul and others, but you cannot find where the Lord encourages people to die at the hands of wicked men. There is only ONE death sacrifice that is pleasing to God--and this is of His Son. Let us not forget that. And while the martyrs will rejoice at the coming of the Lord, and will be avenged, you can see that in each case the Lord was ready and willing to rescue them from untimely death. It was Stephen, who upon seeing Christ standing (not seated--ready to deliver him) at the right hand of the Father, said, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. [Acts 7:60]

It is obviously clear that the Lord was attempting to thwart Paul's journey to Jerusalem as He led at least three people to warn him of impending danger and this was by the Spirit of God--and not of the devil. Paul was steadfast in his mission and thought it an honor to die for the Lord, but we see that by God's actions, it was not His will. However, all things work together for good to them that love God, and are the called according to his purpose. [Romans 8:28]

God worked it out where, after knowing that Paul would go to Jerusalem, that the Lord would make a way for him to go to Rome where he wrote much of the New Testament epistles and carried on his ministry for some years.

I remember the incident that the movie "End of the Spear" documented. They had interviewed the families of the men who were killed by the natives, and most of the remembered that at least two or three of the men and their wives had "a bad feeling" about going to the village at the time, or one thing or another had happened in attempts to delay the mission. I truly believe with all my heart that this was God attempting to communicate a warning to those men. It's sad that so many Christians see our loving Father as a careless apathetic egomaniac who cares only to get glory at any and all expense. This is not the true nature of God, which Jesus revealed perfectly.

Examine the Scriptures and see... You will see that all martyrs in the Bible "submitted" themselves to their fate, and as the Scripture says, Who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens, women received their dead raised to life gain, and others were tortured, NOT ACCEPTING DELIVERANCE, that they might obtain a better resurrection... and these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise, God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. [Hebrews 11:33-40]

But I've digressed but this is important because I want to cover any expected objections to what I'm sharing...

Due to word count restrictions, I was asked to take the remaining half of this article and create a new post called "Answers About Healing".

[lynnmosher]

I have not read your post, Jeff, so this comment is not on what you have said. I just wanted to make you aware that you have gone over the word limit for one post, almost double. The word limit, which is 2500 words, can be found in the TOS and FAQs, if you have not read them. Please be more careful next time. Thanks!

[Jeff Pate]

Sorry about that, Lynn. I was not aware of a word limit. I'll remove the post if necessary. Please let me know... thanks.

[Derby]

Jeff Pate

Thank you for the super-sized reply, its size was no doubt a measure of your zeal and I appreciate it.

I am happy to have a public reply, that is why we are here.

I hope to get back to you, I find huge posts somewhat daunting and don' t like to respond prematurely.

Derby

[lynnmosher]

Jeff, It isn't necessary to remove it. If you can, just take half of it and make it a new post. You can then leave a message at the end of the first one and at the beginning of the second one if you like. It is very difficult to read long posts like that and even more difficult to respond to one. Thanks!

[Don Quixote]

Removed DQ

[Jeff Pate]

Hi Don,

Thanks for your comments, and I'm glad you're enjoying the thread. Confining these posts are difficult, especially in light of some comments and questions.

You apparently did not read what I wrote carefully enough... because I included the passages of Scripture where Jesus spoke directly about believers--and not just apostles--that they would not only do the works that He did, but greater works than these. The reason people are not doing the works of Christ is simply because they do not believe Jesus is speaking to them. (John 14:12; Mark 16:17-18) Does this also mean that we are not to baptize anyone since this was included in the Lord's commission of the disciples as well as verses 17-18? It is clear that simple believers like Stephen and Philip were men of God's power as the Scripture says:

And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people. [Acts 6:8]

Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ to them, And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spoke, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. [Acts 8:5-6]

The Word of God does NOT reveal a "special anointing" other than the only anointing we have--and this is the Anointed One who dwells in us. The Word of God says, And you have an unction from the Holy One and you know all things.... But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you, but as the same anointing teaches you all things, and is truth and is no lie... [1 John 2:20; 27]

The Word of God says, There is one body,and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling: One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of you is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ (the Anointed One). [Ephesians 4:4-8]

Sadly, the incorrect belief that the power of God was given to men only for the confirming of the gospel in the beginning UNTIL the Bible was written CANNOT BE and IS NOT supported in Scripture.

The power of God was given to Jesus (Acts 10:38) and to the apostles for the confirming of the gospel, but now that we have the Bible, do we have no further need in confirming the gospel? Is the Bible a more powerful evangelistic tool than what Jesus had? Should we not even bother preaching and teaching now that we have the Bible because the Bible now confirms God's word? Hardly... The confirmation of the gospel message is more important in this day where most people have been baptized in unbelief, their hearts so hardened to the truth of God's word. If Jesus needed the power of God to confirm His message, how arrogant is it of us to think that we don't simply because we have the Bible?

It has not changed that man doesn't look to Jesus for healing, which is why the Lord gave us His name and dwells in us, so that He can continue His ministry THROUGH us. Certainly it is NOT of us that we bring healing to anyone, but the Christ in us, as the Father did with Jesus, He also does with us--He does the work.

The Lord has also given an ordinance of healing through the elders of the church who will pray the prayer of faith, which is to do exactly what Jesus and the apostles did: command sickness to leave and healing to be done (James 5:14-15).

NEVER do you see anyone "asking" God to heal anyone, especially using the faith-killing words, "If it be Your will." God's will is clear and is revealed in His written will and testament, to which Jesus died and rose again to enforce its distribution to the saints. The Word says that the prayer of faith SHALL heal the sick. The word incorrectly translated "saved" is sozo which was translated heal, healed, made whole, and delivered as well as saved throughout the New Testament, depending on the context. SHALL is an absolute truth--saying that as long as the conditions are met: Anyone who is sick, and THEY call for the elders of the church, and they lay hands on him anointing him with oil, and make the prayer of faith, HEALING SHALL COME.

There is no asterisk next to this passage indicating an exception or (only if it's God's will). Again, God's willingness to heal and see His children live the number of their days is absolutely clear in the Word of God. The Scripture asks, Is any sick among you?

Where is it taught in the Scripture for us to "ask God to bless those around us in accordance with His will"? It is clearly revealed as the will of God to send rain on the just and the unjust, to make the sun rise on the good and the evil.

[Don Quixote]

NEVER do you see anyone "asking" God to heal anyone, especially using the faith-killing words, "If it be Your will."

I agree. Consider this:

American King James Version (http://kjv.us/1_john/5.htm)
And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he hears us:

New American Standard Bible (http://nasb.scripturetext.com/1_john/5.htm) (©1995) (http://www.lockman.org/)
This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

We all know that the Greek of that era was without punctuation, without spacing as we know it in English. The placement of a comma, semicolon, period, space, therefore, is of utmost importance. The Greeks would write similar to this:

"weallknowthatthegreekofthaterawaswithoutpunctuatio nwithoutspacingasweknow it.........." and so on.

Therefore, it is important for us to spiritually comprehend what God is saying, based upon all scripture, not certain sentences chosen from here and there. Here is the proper interpretation of the above scriptural references:


American King James Version (http://kjv.us/1_john/5.htm)
And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing, according to his will he hears us:
New American Standard Bible (http://nasb.scripturetext.com/1_john/5.htm) (©1995) (http://www.lockman.org/)
This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything, according to His will He hears us.

That does not mean that in His exercise of His will he does not answer. It means that the answer will be in accordance with His will. We don't second-guess what God's will is, nor do we say "IF". He'll let us know, in response to our prayer.

With regard to James 5:14-15, please go to James 1:1. To whom is James written? Look no farther than James 1:1. Obviously, the scattered 12 Jewish tribes, not Gentiles. Is it good to read James? Of course! There is a wealth of information there, in the very first NT book, James! We see here the transition from Temple worship, tradition, rules, and regulations, into the glorious Good News for all people, as revealed to we non-Jews by Luke in Acts 9, the Damascus Road experience of Paul. In short, in James we are guests, looking over the shoulders of those who first heard The Word, who first read the book, not "instructees". We do not find, as non-Jewish Christians, our marching orders in James. They are more than sufficiently revealed to us in the Pauline Epistles.

Where is it taught in the Scripture for us to "ask God to bless those around us in accordance with His will"? It is clearly revealed as the will of God to send rain on the just and the unjust, to make the sun rise on the good and the evil.

That's Matthew 5. To whom was He speaking? Who was His audience? This was a message to God's Chosen, the Jews, concerning the arrival of the Messiah, not something that we non-Jews should accept as an instruction or a commandment. Should we read it? Of course! It is beautiful, awesome -- it declares the Glory of God! It is inspirational, it is a time for weeping for joy! But you cannot, must not, apply it across the board to everyone. What did Jesus say He came to do? Luke 5:32. There were no righteous ones. God's Chosen had failed Him every step of the way from Abraham until His advent: Matthew 10:5-6; Matthew 15:24.

Getting waaaaaaaaaay too long!

:)

[Jeff Pate]

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God. [Romans 2:28-29]

Wherefore remember that you being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands. That at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

But now in Christ Jesus you who sometimes were far off are made near by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who has made both ONE, and has broken down the middle wall of partition between us. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments, contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of two ONE NEW MAN, so making peace. And that he might reconcile both unto God in ONE body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby. [Ephesians 2:11-16]

Was the message of the gospel to the Jews and Gentiles different?

Israel is a picture of Christ... meaning by definition, "he will rule as God" and those who are in Christ are Israel by faith. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile according to the flesh because as the Word of God reveals, a True Jew or Israel, is one inwardly of the heart, in the spirit and not in the flesh, meaning in Christ.

What advantage then does the Jew have? Or what profit is there of cirumcision? Much every way: chiefly because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. [Romans 3:1]

What then? Are we better than they? No, in no wise, for we have before probed both Jews and Gentiles that they are all under sin. [Romans 3:9]

Why can't you apply this across the board? Is not "whosoever" included in the gospel? That sounds very much across the board to me, and if God promises to one, then it for all--not just people of Abraham's physical lineage. The Word of God says For you all are children of God by faith. For as many as you have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free; there is neither male nor female. For you are all ONE in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, the you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. [Galatians 3:26-29]

This letter was written to Gentiles, meaning non-Jewish (in the flesh) people. They were made into the ONE body of Christ by faith.

[grateful]

As an old lady who has seen some stuff, I can't help using a couple of old saws:

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
and
A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.

I'm an old lady. I don't have time or patience for all these arguments. I simply state that healing is IN the atonement, but there's so much we don't understand.

My son-in-law, sweet, deeply Christian young man from a devoutly Christian family, a hemophiliac, died from AIDS (from a tainted blood transfusion.) Despite people from all over the world praying for him, he was buried on his 30th birthday, leaving behind a grieving widow and a fatherless little girl. Don't come to me with any arguments about how we might not have been believing right or jumping through the right hoops. God is LOVE, but it just didn't happen for Bryan.

Rheumatoid Arthritis is a disease with no cure, is degenerative and ultimately can be fatal. I was terribly sick and so crippled that I needed help with the most elementary human cares. A prominent physician did all the tests and tendered that diagnosis to me. Based on scientific tests. About six years later, another skilled physicial did all of the tests and declared me free from all traces of the disease. Based on scientific tests, God healed me. I know on the inside of me that the disease, which carried with it a particular fatigue. IS GONE. If I could have, I would cheerfully have traded with Bryan.

It is what it is. Yes, God heals today. Always? Evidently not. But let God be God. He's not bound to the convincing arguments of the most intelligent of His creation.

"Once I was blind, but now I can see."
That's my argument.

[Don Quixote]

Removed DQ

[lynnmosher]

Grateful, I'l so sorry for your loss. I totally agree with you. I've scanned parts and read parts, so if I have overlooked these verses, please tell me so...

1 Cor 12:6-11, "And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."

We always look to the Divine Trinity for healing, not to people. God has graciously given gifts to His children, sharing His Spirit with them. God then works through His children in the name of Jesus.

[Derby]

Jeff

This is a preliminary response to your post, just initial reactions.
I guess that ninety-nine percent of Christians believe that miracles of healing occur from time to time. You believe that a sickness-free life can be the norm for a Christian with proper faith in the Lord’s power and his desire to give us continual wholeness.
It reminds me of 1 Corinthians 3.10-15 ‘…If any man builds on this foundation [Jesus Christ] using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is…It will be revealed with fire…If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up…he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through flames’.
I see your stance as a very high one – and you have witnessed its results in the healing of many people.

By the by, I think that this passage formed part of the germination of the, to me incorrect, idea of Purgatory, where a Christian is purged and got ready for Paradise. From it springs the idea of special Christians, sometimes called Saints, who are thought to bypass Purgatory and go directly to Paradise. After death the life of a potential saint is studied, one requirement I think being that they performed miracles, and if all is acceptable the person is canonised. My point is that one can think of varying grades of Christians.

The ancient Gnostics [‘those who know’] were rather like this, they claimed a special revealed knowledge of God and in later centuries absorbed some Christian ideas into their system. And the thirteenth century Cathars [‘the pure’] who had two classes, the ‘perfect’, who led a demanding lifestyle, and the ordinary ‘believers’, of whom much less was required.

I can’t quite swallow the idea that all special grace died out with the 12 plus 70, it seems a cop-out, but I don’t feel that I can go as far as you do, regarding healing. A lack of faith? – perhaps. I think I see your view as fanciful. If all thought as you there could be a huge number of disillusioned Christians around.
I tend to stick with the basics ‘You were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God’. I have a Christian Hope that I will make it through the flames.

[Jeff Pate]

Hi Derby,

I agree with you completely about the "special" people. God is NO respecter of persons and we've all been given equal faith and place in Him, although our calling and ministries might be different--we're all part of the same Body, and Jesus is the Head.

You wrote, "I think I see your view as fanciful. If all thought as you there could be a huge number of disillusioned Christians around."

I teach the Word of God with the purpose for people to aspire to the highest level of faith as a byproduct of their relationship with God, which was demonstrated by Abraham when he considered not his own body now dead when he was a hundred years old, neither the deadness of Sarah's womb. He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief, but was STRONG IN FAITH, giving glory to God, being fully persuaded that what he had promised he was able also to perform. [Romans 4:19-21]

This faith was also demonstrated by the Centurion who said to Jesus, Speak the word only and my servant shall be healed. [Matthew 8:8]

Let us remember that Jesus marveled at this man's operation of faith.

The nobleman who came to Jesus for healing of his dying son demonstrated this faith when he believed the word that Jesus had spoken to him and he went his way. [John 4:50]

The highest manifestation of faith is to simply believe the Word of God and then act upon it. This is what I teach. The reason people may become disillusioned with this teaching is that most Christians are sadly lazy and won't take the time to get into God's Word so they can receive directly from God, which is God's perfect will (Hebrews 8:10-11).

Jesus said, It is written, that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. [Matthew 4:4; Deuteronomy 8:3]

Although there are certainly different operations of faith that the Bible teaches, and I certainly teach these, but we are called to renew our minds so that we may PROVE the good, and the acceptable, and the PERFECT will of God. The teaching of living by great and strong faith may seem "fanciful" but by the results I'm getting, it appears to be working in accordance with what God's word teaches.

I look forward to hearing more from you! Have a great night!

[Derby]

Jeff

Thank you for your patience. Your arguments are unavoidable and yet, like grateful, I have 67 years experience of life, and I do not accept them. I believe that I believe in Jesus and yet I know that I have such little faith that I could not even uproot a little tree. It is my failing to lay hold of the faith that you describe.

I love the fact that you have this great faith and that people are being healed 'on demand' almost, because it is always God's will that we are free of sickness.

I don't think Christians are necessarily lazy in studying the Scriptures, as you charge, I think they just do not agree with you or accept your reasoning, no matter how mistaken they may be in this.

My wife's nephew has cancer and is told that he will not see the year out and yet I am not expecting him to be healed.
What an awful contrast to your message.