Head Coverings

[Xenia]

What do you think about women wearing a head covering when she prays? I know it's not a law for us. I would love your opinions.

The Bible says this:

1Co 11:1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you.
1Co 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonors his head.
1Co 11:5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved.
1Co 11:6 For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered.
1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.
1Co 11:8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man.
1Co 11:9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man.
1Co 11:10 For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
1Co 11:11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord.
1Co 11:12 For as woman came from man, even so man also comes through woman; but all things are from God.
1Co 11:13 Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
1Co 11:14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him?
1Co 11:15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering.
1Co 11:16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

[ProfessorAlan]

I have no problem with a woman choosing to do that, as long as she is not laying that as a law on other women.

There are many areas where I act in one way because I feel it's right for me, but I don't think my way is right for everyone. This may be one of those areas -- and there are many, many of them.

[Derby]

'1Co 11:13 Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?'

It is sometimes difficult to tell when Paul is giving God's Word and when not.
This case seems to be a matter of choice.
Is it personal choice or a matter decided by a local church for all in that church to follow?

If only Paul was around.

[Rachel E.]

1Co 11:5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved.
1Co 11:6 For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered.
....
1Co 11:15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering.


This is just me, and I think it's for everyone to decide, but I think God gave girls hair to wear it long and use it as the covering. I feel that a woman's hair is her covering. That is merely my opinion though, and I think that everyone needs to decide for themselves. I'm not going to judge anyone for their personal beliefs.

[JayBee]

My mother always covered her head when she prayed because she felt it was right. Women don't wear hats at our church or cover their heads.

[righter1]

I don't cover my head, but I won't say anything if someone wants to cover theirs. Of course I go to a very progressive church--we have a rock band, and on any given Sunday, at least 50% of the congregation wear jeans--including the pastors half the time.

On these particular Scriptures, though, I think you have to take them in context of when they're written. This is a key thing at my church--putting the words of the Bible in context for when they were written--trust me, it helps you understand what was being said and to relate it to today much easier! We've touched on these Scriptures at church a time or two, and it's been explained to me that at the time of the writing, a woman who didn't cover her head was a prostitute. Don't know if it's accurate or not, but that's what I've taken to understanding.

Though, I do agree with Rachel's interpretation of I Cor. 11:15. :) Right on!

[Xenia]

This issue often comes to my mind. For some unknown reason I like the idea of it. I go to a very casual church and if I were to cover my head at prayer times it would certainly draw attention to myself. I would not want to do that but for my own private time in prayer I've been considering it. I know it's not a law. I know it wouldn't make me a more spiritual person. I really find myself examining my motives though. Why do I think of it so often? Strange.....

[lynnmosher]

Xenia, I've skipped this thread until I read your last post. As I did research for my book, which is based on the 12 steps of the ancient Jewish betrothal process, with 12 chapters on living a holy life as the bride of Christ.

Through my digging, I found a great deal of info on the prayer shawl and wrote about it, but it didn't fit the book so I took it out. This is why your post caught my attention. During my quiet time, sometimes I use my prayer shawl. When you understand the uniqueness and attention to detail, even to all the knotting of the prayer shawl, that goes into making one, it is an awesome experience with the Lord.

[Xenia]

Thank you Lynn :) Now, are you referring to the blue and white ones with the tassels? A different type? I would really be interested in the information you found through all your research... Maybe you should write an article about it... hmmm?

By the way, your book sounds fascinating!

[lynnmosher]

There is no difference between the blue or the black striped ones now, if that's what you mean. All that I've written I have kept it together and could be an article but it is pretty long. And thanks for the comment. I think it is rather interesting. If you would like a copy of what I've written on the prayer shawl, I would be happy to send it to you. Let me know.

[Laina]

Isn't it beautiful Lynn!!!

Jewish woman have been wearing head coverings forever, but it is the men that wear the prayer shawl (Tallit -Tah leet) until recently.

The blue and white ones are for men. They have some beautiful prayer shawls for women made of silk with some beautiful patterns. I'd love to get one. My husband and I use to go to a Messianic church and loved it.

Anyway, even if you do use a prayer shawl, the head covering is still used. There is a difference between the two.

I'll let Lynn explain the fringes. I'd love to see your article too Lynn.

A friend and I were discussing head coverings not that long ago wondering if we were suppose to wear a covering all the time. We haven't come to a conclusion yet. There are many different words used for covering. Its not the same word. I'd love to talk with someone who knows greek really well.

[Xenia]

Lynn - I would LOVE to read what you have written on the subject! Thank you so much :D. I am truly spoiled!

[Derby]

'For some unknown reason I like the idea of [a head covering]'

There are many optional aids to worship.
Most Christian denominations each have traditions for the use of a particular range of aids to worship - or a noticeable lack of them.
For example an Orthodox church will have their aids to worship.

Whilst in Hamburg recently a Lutheran church was open and we took the opportunity to look around. Two people were decorating the pew ends with candles and ribbons, in preparation for a wedding. But the decorations were simple and minimal.
The church building was plain, I would say dour. It had one stained glass window. Two other major windows had plain glass with a picture outlined in leadwork.

A growing number of churches in UK do not have 'ecclesiastical' buildings, they may just rent a large room in a public building.

So we accept the wide variety of ways of worshipping and use what we want to use.
If you attended a service in a different church it may help you to appreciate the variety.

[lynnmosher]

Anyway, even if you do use a prayer shawl, the head covering is still used. There is a difference between the two.

Hmmm...in all the Jewish sites I have read, they say that there is no difference between the blue and the black stripe. Tell me what you know about this, Laina.

Lynn - I would LOVE to read what you have written on the subject! Thank you so much :D. I am truly spoiled!

I'll get my article together and send it to you. I don't know if I can do it today, so maybe tomorrow. Laina, if you would like to read it, (I can't remember while I'm typing this if you said you wanted to or not), let me know.

[jacks girl]

To me I think as Rachel said a womans hair is her covering. I think that verse is pretty straight forward and clear.

1Co 11:15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering.

I think when he talks about praying without our head covered it is talking about women with hardly no hair but that is my opinion. I think if you are a woman and your don't have your head all but shaved as a man would then you are covered.

I personally like long hair. My granny used to have people tell her what good is your long hair if you pile it on your head in a bun. You might as well cut it off.

Her answer was I can pull a couple of pins out and dry the feet of my master with my hair. If i cut it off I couldn't do that. I liked that answer.

jacks

[Xenia]

Thanks again Lynn. I appreciate the opportunity to read what you have gathered. Don't push yourself over it though. I am in no hurry.. besides, patience is a virtue :) I know you are a busy lady!

Derby, I understand what you are saying... I have attended many different types of churches. I do not seek tradition (although some is hard to avoid) and I especially do not seek ecclesiastic protocol. I have thought quite a bit about this and I honestly do not like the notion that this would be an "aid to worship". You have thrown a caution flag for me.

Jacks, I love your granny's answer too! I have very short hair. I'm okay with that. If I had "good" hair I would love to have it long though :)

[Gravity]

Just to throw my two cents into the mix (adjusted for inflation), I've had a tallit (prayer shawl), or as some call it a tullus (sp?), for over ten years, and I wear it when I'm praying privately at home. There's nothing magical in it, of course, but I cannot deny it lends a deeper meaning to that time.

[lynnmosher]

Exactly my thought!

[Derby]

It is frustrating that a woman will not cover her head in public prayer because she will find herself conspicuous.

1 Timothy 2.9-10 KJV ‘that women adorn themselves in modest apparel…which becometh women professing godliness’.
The concordance shows ‘becometh’ as the translation of the greek ‘prepo’ – not to stand out, not to be conspicuous [There seems to be an inference that the woman should not attempt to show herself as attractive in a sexual way].

The same word is in Matthew 3.13-15 ‘cometh Jesus…to be baptized…it becometh’ – Jesus, without sin, confirmed John’s message of repentance from sin. Perhaps others have comments on this incident, although it is off topic. Why was it better that Jesus was baptized rather than not baptized?

The same word is in 1 Corinthians 11.13 ‘is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?’ I think all nuns cover their heads, and strict Brethren women, and most Muslim women – even when not praying. Is this merely the principle of not seeking to appear attractive sexually?

It used to be the custom for a woman to wear a hat in church. A woman with no hat would be conspicuous. The hat perhaps was a ‘diluting’ of the principle [the hat itself could be a conspicuous one] and the principle is now so diluted as to be absent.

My point is that a symbol of a Christian teaching has gone.
Ironically, nowadays if a woman desires to cover her head so as not to be conspicuous that act will make her conspicuous.

Nowadays many women seek to look attractive, and men do not usually object.
Nowadays most women do not see themselves as subservient to men in any way at all, as Paul did.
Men and women are different, but they are equal before Christ.

[ProfessorAlan]

... and I honestly do not like the notion that this would be an "aid to worship". You have thrown a caution flag for me.

Why is that? There are certainly plenty of things that are potential aids to worship for different people -- music is one of the most common in churches, although different types of music aid different people in their worship -- what aids me may be a distraction for you, and vice versa, but music fits that description for most of us.

Other aids to worship that I can think of off the top of my head include: nature, solitude, community, sunrise, sunset, and the visual arts.

I personally wish my church had more visual displays to aid my worship -- I go to a typically bland, evangelical church, and have a hunch I am missing something I could find valuable.

[Xenia]

Gravity, Derby, Professor... you are all wonderful! I love you. Your insights have helped me tremendously. I think I may go shopping now for a beautiful covering :)

[Derby]

'you are all wonderful'

My wife concurs.
And women are wonderful too.
Donne wrote a poem 'Specular Stone' about a transparent stone with which to build a temple for woman. The following is the beginning of my poem where I borrowed the idea. Don't critique it because I perhaps should not post it here for that purpose. It just seemed relevant.



Specular Stone

Transparent stone for temples
Deep quarried with hope’s hammer
Cut with the sharp flint of faith
Polished with lint of lover

I build your temple with stone
Specular stone will not hide.
Your heart of love is shown there
Woman is Perfection; dressed.

[Xenia]

Beautiful!

[Laina]

Hmmm...in all the Jewish sites I have read, they say that there is no difference between the blue and the black stripe. Tell me what you know about this, Laina.

I was saying that head coverings are something separate from the prayer shawls not that there is a difference between black or blue.

In the Jewish tradition, it's interesting that only married woman (widowed and divorced also) must cover their head, while unmarried women do not.

For the woman's head covering, they wear snoods or wrap scarves in a fashionable way, and some wear hats today, but this isn't the prayer shawl.

For the men, they wear yaramulkes or kippots. They are those round cap coverings at the back of their head.

The prayer shawl was only for the men (still is for Orthodox Jews) until recently. The stripped blue prayer shawls were for men only. Now that woman are wearing them too, they have made some pretty, feminine ones with beautiful designs. I guess woman could use the blue stripped ones, I'm not sure if within Judaism if its allowed or not. I can find out if you are interested.

Actually I have the ancient Jewish wedding customs on an audio tape around here somewhere. I also have an article about it. I would like to read your's also, but no hurry. :)

[ProfessorAlan]

Gravity, Derby, Professor... you are all wonderful! I love you. Your insights have helped me tremendously. I think I may go shopping now for a beautiful covering :)

Awesome -- just promise you won't judge my wife and daughter for not.

[lynnmosher]

Oh, Laina, where did you get those tapes? I would love to know.

[Don Quixote]

1 Cor 11:16. The church has no such practice.

[Laina]

I think it was "Love Song To The Messiah". I'll check and see for sure.

[Xenia]

Awesome -- just promise you won't judge my wife and daughter for not.

Not in a million years!

Laina, I had read that too about the need for the covering if a woman wears the tallit.

One will notice that most women at services do not wear a tallit, while virtually every Jewish male does. Why is this so? Before egalitarianism was introduced into Judaism, a relatively recent event, a woman simply was not allowed to wear a tallit. This is no longer true today, but the old practice lingers on. At Beth El, women are welcome to wear a tallit. (Note: if a woman chooses to wear a tallit, covering the head is in order, to display respect for the tallit.) http://ma002.urj.net/tallit.html

[Xenia]

1 Cor 11:16. The church has no such practice.

Yes, I know. It's just something that is in my own heart for my alone time with the Lord... :)

[kshsj777]

1Co 11:5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved.
1Co 11:6 For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered.
....
1Co 11:15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering.


This is just me, and I think it's for everyone to decide, but I think God gave girls hair to wear it long and use it as the covering. I feel that a woman's hair is her covering. That is merely my opinion though, and I think that everyone needs to decide for themselves. I'm not going to judge anyone for their personal beliefs.

That is what I noticed when I first read it just now too.

[SkeeterFranklin]

I agree with Rachel and KS,
A woman's hair is her covering. I have never like hats.

Does that mean that men should shave their heads? Not a question to be answered! :cool:

[kshsj777]

Yes Skeeter, that is one thing that could be wrong with our interpretation. But then again, men's hair is short and women's hair is usually longer (or should be longer) than men's hair in general.

I used to have long hair for a while, but it was getting too hard to take care enough, so I keep it around shoulder length.

[Rachel E.]

Kel, I had long hair for most of my life, but I've cut it shorter now. It's still longer than most guys hair, but it is short. I don't know where you would draw the line.
My dad used to grow his hair out quite long and God told him that it was hindering my dad's prayers. So for my Dad, it's a personal thing to keep his hair rather short. Does that make sense? but I think each person needs to find their own belief system based in God and His word.
What verse is it that says there is one interpretation and many applications? I think this applies.

[kshsj777]

Yeah I don't think there is a definite place where here it's "just fine" and then here where it's "Oh your hair is too long!"

But you should at least be able to tell when somebody's a guy. Sometimes it's hard to tell that sort of thing when men have long hair and women have really really short hair, if you know what I mean.

[Rachel E.]

The line I find hard to draw for myself, is when is my hair too short, or some guys hair too long? I mean, somewhere there is a line between that. My hair is not VERY short, it's about 5-7 inches long. it's about collar length, I guess. But I wouldn't go shorter than that... I don't know, maybe I'm all wet.

[kshsj777]

Rach you're just fine. I don't think God is nitpicky about the exact length of your hair. Just as long as you look like a girl LOL

[Rachel E.]

Thanks Kel, glad you think so. I agree with you that it is each person's personal decision and no one elses.

[ProfessorAlan]

I am personally in favor of girls who look like girls!

[Rachel E.]

I definetly look like a girl. I'm fairly slender... and that makes me a bit curvy! lol... but yes, I have long enough hair for that. My boyfriend/fella likes my hair the length it is, and not much longer. He starts teasing me that i'm mop-head then! lol...

[kshsj777]

LOL Rach.....

[Tamera]

One thing that hasn't been discussed is the cultural issue behind this. A woman in the first century that appeared in public with her head uncovered was considered unsavory at best. Only prostitues did that. Women were exploring their newfound freedom in Christ. So Paul had to admonish them to cover their heads. He was telling them to honor the cultural norms of modesty and decency, not saying that women throughout history have to wear hats to church or grow their hair long.

[Don Quixote]

One thing that hasn't been discussed is the cultural issue behind this. A woman in the first century that appeared in public with her head uncovered was considered unsavory at best. Only prostitues did that. Women were exploring their newfound freedom in Christ. So Paul had to admonish them to cover their heads. He was telling them to honor the cultural norms of modesty and decency, not saying that women throughout history have to wear hats to church or grow their hair long.


It is soooooooooo important for we Christians to understand that not everything written in the NT is a commandment for us today. Praise God! It was common in the church for a woman to appear in public assemblies and public worship covered and/or veiled. It was good that they did so in that era because of the very thing that Tamera wrote.

:)

[SkeeterFranklin]

I love long hair, especially in a thick braid. Sometimes I wore my hair like that. But since I have learned how to swim, it all has to fit inside one of those very nifty swimming caps (not the kind with the strap that goes under your chin and snaps at the side - there is a guy who wears one like that when he swims). Now my hair is pretty short and easy to take care of - gives me more time for important things like writing. :)

[Rachel E.]

Good point Tamera, but I still have to draw the line somewhere on girls hair, when is it too short, and a guys hair, when is it too long?

Thanks though!

[smithcharlottea]

Xenia,
I can remember in some denominations if a woman walked into church without a hat or a doilie on her head, she was given a tissue (believe it or not) to place on her head, and it would amaze me that the ushers never ran out of tissues or bobby pins for the women to hold the tissue in place that was on their head.

Many denominations have done away with that tradition, because many have accepted that a woman's hair is her covering. For myself personally, sometimes I wear a hat to church and other times I don't. Even in church there are times when some of us may cover ourselves with our prayer shawls, but that doesn't happen in every service. As well, during my personal prayer time I may choose to cover myself.