To Judge or Not to Judge

[ninetyandnine]

I was listening to Alistair Begg this morning on the way into work. He was speaking on judging based on Luke Chapter 6. He said that Jesus never meant that we were not to judge a person's behavior. When Jesus said do not judge He was referring to taking the law into your own hands.

Alistair also made an excellent distinction between being judgemental and judging. He gave 3 bullets that indicated a judgemental attitude. Of course, most everyone hits one or more of those bullets at times. (one was quick to point out someone's shortcomings. Another was took pleasure when someone made a mistake. I think the third was overly critical when someone made a mistake)

It was an interesting discussion because in today's society, if you make a stand about something it's likely you will hear something like: "oh you're so judgemental," or "don't judge me." As Alistair pointed out, our society is so confused that a jury can sit and look at a man that has killed his wife by stabbing her and say, how can I judge this man? Afterall, we've all done things that are wrong.

So what do you think Jesus meant when He said, "Do not judge and you will not be judged," knowing fully that we are probably incapable of NOT judging.

[lynnmosher]

Before I have a chance to answer, this will probably be moved as this forum is strictly for writing discussions. This belongs in 4B in one of the Crhistian living sections. I would move it for you but my powers of moderation only work in 4B.

[Gravity]

I judge this is probably in the wrong thread! :D (And I also reckon it'll get moved directly...)

[SkeeterFranklin]

You are so right, 99. I run into this whenever I get into a pro-life debate with "fellow" Christians. When I take a stand defending the unborn, I am criticized for being too judgmental toward women. It doesn't shut me up, however.

[Laina]

Hi 99,

I like Alistair Begg.

If we keep reading after judge not.....

41"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

The point Jesus was making here was that we need to look into our own heart and motives............remove a wrong spirit or a pointing of the finger and truly desire to help this person out. If I am a drunkard and try to tell another drunkard to stop consuming so much alcohol - I would be a hypocrite. If I cease becoming drunk, I will see more clearly how to help out a brother that may be sinning. My own sin blinds me on how to help out this other person.

[kshsj777]

Laina is right, everybody is right. I agree. We are to judge based on what the Bible says and yet be careful that we aren't hypocrites. But even then, we're all hypocrites of some sort until the next life.

[ProfessorAlan]

I don't think we can expect non-Christians ("normal people") to follow God's standards for behavior, so I am careful about that.

[ninetyandnine]

Apologies Lynmosher for putting the wrong subject in this thread. I thought the thread with names of God was in this forum and figured this would be fine.
Appreciate everyone that joined in though. Wonderful, reflective comments from everyone. Thanx--99

[lynnmosher]

Hey, no problem! I think everybody here has done the same at least once! Not to worry!

[Xenia]

So what about Matthew 7:1?
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
We have been misled into a wrong understanding of this verse and therefore failing to do our duty for the body of Christ.
Read in context we can see that Matt 7:2-5 clarifies that v. 1 is referring to hypocritical judgment. A brother who has a beam in his own eye should not be judging the brother who may have a mote in his eye. The passage is reading, you cannot judge another for his sin if you are guilty of the same sin. And that we shouldn't judge others unless we are prepared to be held to the same set of standards.
Those who cling to "Judge not, that ye be not judged" to condemn those who expose error should read the entire chapter. Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing... " (v. 15). How can we know false prophets unless we judge them by what is written in the Word of God? If we know of false teachings, and those who teach them, how can we fail to warn the sheep of these "ravening wolves?" The Bible contains many passages that give us proof that these false prophets should be identified and exposed.
http://www.bereanwatchmen.com/j.r.hall/exposing-false-doctrine.html

I know however that it is not possible to judge why (thoughts and intents) a person does something... can't be done. People are too complex.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

[Lookin^Up]

We all have to learn the fine art of distinguishing between judging the action rather than the sinner, of judging spirits and not people. And that's not a lesson that easy for us to learn. I agree with all comments given, so I haven't much more to add.

Except this: Lynn, your new avatar makes me want to say, "Cluck, two three four, cluck, two three four ..."

[lynnmosher]

LOL! I've said this in other threads...it's a self-portrait! LOL!

[revran]

Yes, the "judge not lest ye be judged" of Matthew 7 was for hyprocrites (see verse 5). Jesus said we are to judge "righteously" (John 7:24). Paul said we are very able to judge things of this life, because someday we will judge angels (1 Corinthians 6:3). In other words, how will we judge angels if we cant even make a judgment about a person here on earth? Everyone makes judgments daily, although they are small (which sandwich to eat for lunch, what to drink, etc.). As for me personally, I judge people by their words and attitudes and actions, and I do it righteously, in the fear of the Lord. I suggest getting a concordance and do a word study on the words "judge" and "judged." You might be surprised to find that we are to judge. It is usually those who are guilty that find offense with judging.

[ninetyandnine]

We have been misled into a wrong understanding of this verse and therefore failing to do our duty for the body of Christ.
Read in context we can see that Matt 7:2-5 clarifies that v. 1 is referring to hypocritical judgment. A brother who has a beam in his own eye should not be judging the brother who may have a mote in his eye. The passage is reading, you cannot judge another for his sin if you are guilty of the same sin. And that we shouldn't judge others unless we are prepared to be held to the same set of standards.

Absolutely true

Those who cling to "Judge not, that ye be not judged" to condemn those who expose error should read the entire chapter. Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing... " (v. 15). How can we know false prophets unless we judge them by what is written in the Word of God? If we know of false teachings, and those who teach them, how can we fail to warn the sheep of these "ravening wolves?" The Bible contains many passages that give us proof that these false prophets should be identified and exposed.

True true

We can't judge with total righteousness because that has been given to the Son by the Father (I'd look up the passage but my eyes are still dilated from an eye appt!), and we are made righteous through Christ. But that sure doesn't make us perfect or holy! So judging gets to be a tricky thing doesn't it. Look at Paul. He followed his conscience. Thought he was persecuting Christians righteously, do the right thing in the name of God.
If we are going to judge, I think we must judge by His standard, because this whole thing of judging matters after we are facing eternity. Personally, I think we should avoid it as often as possible, but there are times we must make a decision. If someone is doing something wrong for example, we have to make a decision about what constitutes wrong. I think wrong is defined as the law of the land, and God's word. Separating my own personal opinions I find, is often tough. And I try not to judge the world by God's standards, because they play by different rules so to speak. We (are supposed) to play by different rules as Christians. It's a complex thing perhaps, judging. And I agree with you totally. Trying to guess the motives of people are impossible. Only God knows our hearts. And thar is the whole wonder of God I think. He knows our hearts but loves us anyhow, so much so that He would sent His Son to take our place so that we could be with Him throughout eternity?? That is a wonder I accept, but will never understand the why. 99

[ProfessorAlan]

Seems we spend most of our "judging" energy on those outside the church, which really never made much sense to me.

And as much as God does teach judgement within the church, there also seems to be some structure for it, within guidelines of authority and accountability.

[Hisart]

Looks like Alistair got this one right.

Most people take verses out of context, look at the next verse.

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that you may not be judged.
Mat 7:2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you shall be judged; and with whatever measure you measure out, it shall be measured to you again.

Then check out what you need to do if you are filled with the Holy Spirit!

1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged by no one.
1Co 2:16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

The context is "Judge righteously" and not by the flesh.;)

[SkeeterFranklin]

HisArt,
Perfectly put together. !thumbsup!

[ninetyandnine]

Well done
99