No Kissing Allowed?

[Lookin^Up]

Last Friday I attended a wedding in which a second cousin of mine married a girl who lives here in the Denver area (the city of Highlands Ranch; he lives in Wisconsin), and it turned into a mini-reunion for several in our family. For the most part it was a beautiful ceremony, but a few minor details seemed off the wall to me.

1) The bride's mother was also the "matron of honor". Have you ever heard of anyone doing this?

2) In his short sermon, the minister's main text was the Old Testament custom of having a woman captive's head shaven, her fingernails pared, her old clothes replaced, to remain in mourning for a full month, so an Israelite man who was attracted to her could eventually marry her (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). That felt weird to me; what did that have to do with a Christian marriage where both are already godly?

3) Most of all, a big deal was made of the fact that the couple had never kissed nor even held hands while they were dating, as though even those small contacts were somehow "of the world". That meant that when they finally did kiss as part of the ceremony, both during the wedding and at the reception, it seemed the bride could not get enough of it (naturally). Does denying even minor touches during dating sound normal to you, or over-the-top religious?

I will reserve my comments until someone answers.

[JayBee]

A kiss is just a kiss so the song says but I think a kiss is much much more. Top marks for self control to this couple but look what they missed. I guess it's the way a kiss is given and the reason behind it that counts. In many countries they greet by kissing on each cheek. Jesus was betrayed by a kiss.

[ProfessorAlan]

It's a choice a couple makes, not the one my wife and I made ... if they choose it freely, then it is not "over-the-top religious" anymore than any other denial of pleasure (or fasting) is.

[righter1]

I've heard of this before (I think there was a Dateline: NBC or 20/20 episode on it YEARS ago!) but it seems over-the-top to me, at least in today's culture. Maybe a few hundred years ago, but then a few hundred years ago, weren't arranged marriages normal?

Still, if it was their choice, that's fine.

My husband and I came from very different ideas on how things were to work in a dating/courting relationship when we got together, and both of us ended up compromising. (I'll just say that we had a week-long argument/stand-off after his first attempt to kiss me--that's where I came from!) But, we're together now--6 years this month!

[DrRita]

My only concern would be a couple getting married for sex. Not that there should be any question of waiting it's just that given the strong drives, sexual desire could be translated into love. Hopefully they had premarital counseling and lots of time to make sure they were truly in love.

[Xenia]

Number 2, the ministers main text for the ceremony actually concerns me more...

[jacks girl]

To me personally this is over the wall. If they both chose to do this cause they wanted to then that is fine. If they think it makes them more holy or better than those that kiss when they date i think thats wrong. I think if you don't kiss or date when you hold hands you are missing out on so much.

I remember my first kiss with hubby so well, it stands out in my mind, now would that kiss have been more special if we'd waited for our wedding day in front of lots of people, in my book no way.

So my answer is. You are missing out on a lot if you don't kiss while dating. Hey if you don't want to kiss everyone you date thats fine... but I think if you are planning on getting married to someone it's time to start the kissing. LOL!
Jacks

[DrRita]

Number 2, the ministers main text for the ceremony actually concerns me more...

And that too!!! Did he go out and drag her in from some cave somewhere?:confused:

[melw]

I have heard of this idea of not kissing until your wedding day, but it wasn't the right thing for me.

My hubby and i had been at a barn dance the night before and we ended up in the same car the next evening after a party. He grabbed my hand and i knew he wanted to go out with me. holding hands with your partner is a special part of the realtionship so i could not imagine never holding hands unti you got married.

I mean you shake hands but the hand holding with your loved one is special. But in the end it is the couples choice. I know when we got married we actually held each other's hands.

MEL

[wgjones3]

I could see it go either way, and I probably wouldn't initiate the idea myself, but I honestly don't think I'd mind if the next lady I courted wanted to wait until our wedding to kiss.

Now, bringing up the shaved head thing at a wedding... um, I'd be asking for a partial refund if it was me. Just sayin'.

[kshsj777]

Personally I've decided I'm not going to kiss until my wedding day. But I wouldn't have a problem with holding hands once I got engaged. Until then, HANDS OFF!!!

[Lookin^Up]

Thank you for your comments. Yes, I agree that kissing during the dating period should be a choice between the couple, and yea or nay, that should not be condemned. It was just the emphasis on "what the world thinks is right" in relation to it that bothered me most.

In this case, the couple's getting together was part their own choice (they were members of each other's blog sites, I hear, and e-mailed each other for some time) and part the parents' arrangement (her father noticed the frequent e-mails, and rather than confront her first, he contacted the future groom's father about his son's "intentions"). The era of parental control, even in part, has long passed by, IMHO. I have a problem with churches who make a doctrine out of teaching kids how to date, since no such restrictions appear in the Bible (except in a cultural sense). It's as though they consider themselves extra holy because they do this.

The same sense of parental control came through with the bride's mom being "matron of honor," placing her closest to the nuptial action, standing like a smiling Greek statue throughout the ceremony. I've never known a girl wanting Mom that visible during her own day; after all, who's getting married here?

[kshsj777]

I strongly think parents should be involved. It is very easy for people to get all emotional, make mistakes and even possibly disobey the Scriptures, which could have been avoided if they'd just kept their parents in the loop and relied on their wisdom and foresight.

I know the dating vs courtship thing is a tough issue. My parents have said they want me to court, not date. They do not want me going off alone with some guy when there could be serious temptations.

I know not everybody has good parents, but the important thing here is accountability. Having an older wiser adult that you have to report to will keep you away from a lot of trouble.

[Mona]

My honest opinion is that it probably doens't matter. I do think that if'n you don't kiss, you can't get hormonal surges mixed up with "I want to live with you forever."

[Mona]

footnote: i think i have developed a dyslexic trend. i keep transposing. i guess that is what this increase the print thing on my computer is for; think i'll use it!

[jacks girl]

I agree with Mona. I have to think that it would be easier to think your in love if you are really not letting your emotions show. But I could be wrong. LOL Kiss on sisters. LOL!!! that is a joke for those of you that don't know me.

Jacks

[Thebigguy]

And that too!!! Did he go out and drag her in from some cave somewhere?:confused:

I'd pay money to see that. I think the scripture is refering to taking pagans as wives and if they accept the ritual yada, yaha, yada.
I think some of it is also how liberal you were with the ladies before you were saved or even if you were saved. If you've been with someone sexually I'm sorry but a kiss is not just a kiss anymore and I think that's something we have to watch or if we are widowed and marrying again or something. Actually it was something that Focus on the Family talked about that i thought was pretty good.

[Merry]

What, not kiss if you're in love? Well, I can understand the reasoning and especially, as everyone has said, if it's their decision, but man, that would be one long engagement...or at least feel like one.

[Lookin^Up]

Thank you, everyone, for your comments. My own feeling is that as long as no sexual activities are involved, a simple kiss should be allowed--though not necessarily the oscillating kind we often see in Hollywood movies. In real life, that can too easily get out of hand. But it is personal choice how much one will allow or disallow; I just felt that this church went a little too far in the control arena. Maybe that's just me, but that's how I felt. At least it made for an interesting discussion. :D

[Daniel]

To use a scripture like the pastor did in question 2 is just plain strange. Not to mention probably taking it out of context. As for the kissing, kiss! kiss! kiss! Now that I got that done and over with... It is a person's choice to kiss or not to kiss, no religious thing should be imposed on them. I would personally break away from a church that taught and enforced that sort of thing. If they teach that there is no telling what else they will teach *dramatic music*

[Rachel E.]

Well hey all... this is an interesting thread because actually I am going through some of this stuff RIGHT now, as some of you know.
I am currently courting a young man from my area and we are planning on getting married. My dad has set bans on us both about kissing and touching. He has forbidden us to touch at all, in fact, he wants a handsbreadth between us at all times. You can not imagine how hard that is when all you want to do is wrap your arms around him. I don't htink that holding hands is a bad thing before marriage, but apparently, my dad does. He is a great guy, but very strict with me in this. So, if you have any questions about this very topic... you are more than welcome to ask me. I KNOW what this is all about.
And about the other two things, I would not want my mom as my matron of honor, but I guess... that's her choice. And as for the pastor's topic.. that is weird. I'd want a refund if my pastor did that!

[sweet-jay]

Hello Everyone!
I am not passing judgement on anyone here, not even the couple in question. But think it wouldn't be too great an idea to kiss while dating, because it just might lead to more than kissing...

However, I must add that I do agree with Jaybee when he says that it's the reason behind the kiss that counts. If according to your culture you kiss in greeting, e.t.c, then I guess that's okay. However... yeah, it depends on the motive.

On the other hand, I do not think that there's anything wrong with holding hands.

I also think that a couple that's dating should set their own rules. If they see something as potential for them to go astray, no matter how weird it may seem to do or not to do it, they should follow their set rules, guided by God's Word.

I guess the important thing at the end of the day is to not let God down, but glorify His Name!!!

God bless y'all!

[Narrannik]

I'll start by saying I've never been kissed. So, if you're a wild kisser yourself, you might want to skip this post.

I don't believe it's sin to kiss before marriage, but I believe it's closer to it than one might think. I've made a commitment to sexual purity, to save myself for my wife, and that means more than not sleeping around. It means that I will safeguard my emotions, my words, and my thoughts as well as my body. It means that I won't lead a girl along and give her just part of me. I'm not going to take that from her and from her future husband. I'm stealing it from him if I do. Maybe stealing it from myself.

That's the gift I want to give her, when she walks down that aisle and I lift that veil and I kiss her. The gift of my very first kiss.

Please don't think I'm condemning any of you, or thinking of myself as more holy. This is simply a commitment I've made. Some of you have commented on how long it would last, how hard it would be. Well, it is, there's no denying that. Horribly long. Tempting, taunting. But love is commitment, and I love my future wife that much.

About the baldness thing. I may be off the deep end, but not that far. That's just weird. While we're on the topic (Ok, we're not really, but I want to mention it anyhow) whatever happened to throwing rice? What's up with these sissy bubbles and stuff?

[PattyU]

While we're on the topic (Ok, we're not really, but I want to mention it anyhow) whatever happened to throwing rice? What's up with these sissy bubbles and stuff?

Ann Landers wrote a column in the 60's telling people that birds explode after eating rice. It's a myth, but so many people believe it that it has become bad form to throw rice.

[PattyU]

Oh, and I agree with the others that the couple should decide whether to kiss or not. It could become legalistic if one is not careful. Narrannik, I think your decision sounds healthy and done for good reasons. The weird bald headed verse makes me question the theology of the couple in the original question.