Florida event causes rift in charismatic community

[Xenia]

More on Bently...

"Miraculous manifestations are never the test of a true revival - fidelity to God's Word is the test," wrote AOG Superintendent George O. Wood. "Jesus Himself said there would be many who would do miracles in His name and even cast out demons, but he does not know them. Jesus warned that 'many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.'"

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Business/Default.aspx?id=175300

[lynnmosher]

Yeah, Xenia, I've been keeping up with these also. It truly bothers me. It is not only not good for the church but also not good for the church's image outside the church. I'm sure this makes the enemy smile!

[grateful]

And doncha love the way things are reported? The article says...

His tactics, sometimes violent, have made skeptics even of Pentecostals who believe in concepts that aren't accepted by all branches of Christianity such as speaking in tongues, miraculous healing and spontaneous twitching from the Holy Spirit.

Ya know? I've been to Pentecostal meetings for forty years. I've seen a lot of "unusual" manifestations, but I have yet to see my first case of "spontaneous twitching." Good night! Couldn't you just feel sorry for the Lord sometimes? What He has to put up with! Elaine

[Lookin^Up]

I'm not Pentecostal, but I've had several Pentecostal friends, some of whom have tried to get me into their movement. I believe very strongly in the validity of speaking in tongues and miraculous healing; I've seen both in action, and I can always sense when the Holy Spirit is in them. Yet not once have I heard of "spontaneous twitching" as a spiritual manifestation. Seems to me that Pentecostals are pretty much united--against Bently.

I've also read some of the comments at the end of the article. Some take a wait-and-see approach. (Why? You can test the spirits right now!) Some attempt to compare some of Jesus' unusual healing methods with Todd's. (When did Jesus ever kick someone in the teeth?) Jesus spoke gently, with compassion, quoting frequently from revealed Scripture (so far) to make His points. Todd is wild, frenetic, loud, and doesn't appear to have proven any of his claims. I was particularly interested in this little tidbit.

He claims to have medical proof of mass healings, but has not produced widely convincing evidence.
Hmm ... that reminds me of a self-proud and highly judgmental young man I once knew who claimed to be a minister. He insisted that he had a theology degree from the Nazarene church (not from a seminary where they're usually handed out), and he promised to show it to me sometime. I never saw it. Once I was in his apartment and asked him to show it to me. After a little searching, he claimed he couldn't find it, but "it's around here somewhere." And his apartment was not particularly messy.

Yeah, real righteous, these guys.

[Xenia]

Yeah, Xenia, I've been keeping up with these also. It truly bothers me. It is not only not good for the church but also not good for the church's image outside the church. I'm sure this makes the enemy smile!

This is what bothers me too... what folks outside the church must be thinking. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Sad/sad-005.gif

[Rachel E.]

I think there are two very sad things about this whole revival.
#1 is what Lynn mentioned, that the people outside the church watching this are being decieved as to what real Christianity is,
and #2 that people INSIDE the church are getting decieved. Todd does not preach repentance for the remission of sin.
I'm a pentacostal, in fact, I attend an AG or AOG church. I've studied their beliefs and agree to the greater degree. But I think it's sad that so many people are actually placing their faith in this fraud! I hope that somehow he gets shut down soon. Maybe by someone proving him wrong.. But whatever it is... it's gotta be stopped.
Did any of you read the comments on the article at the bottom of the page? Such a huge conflict, comment to comment. It's so sad...

[Keith Wallis]

I'm an English Baptist, and was very involved in the renewal movement in England in the late 70's - but, though a charismatic, I'm a conservative one - God can even use us introverts ! Excesses of any kind bother me. Some so-called 'manifestations of the Spirit' seem plain ludicrous and less than edifying. Though perhaps 'twitching' has some historic reference i.e. in the Shaker and the Quaker movements.

[Laina]

I was saved in the 70's too. I really hate labels, but I guess you could describe me as a conservative charismatic.

Jesus said we would know them by their fruits. Bently has loads of bad fruit.

Also........... Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.

I have this strange feeling that many will get tired of the so called 'wave' movements with the false healings and manifestations. And then someone will come on the scene that will have true healings and miracles and will be a false prophet/teacher and will end up deceiving so many more that will stick with him because his are really happening. Its so easy to know a false prophet/teacher like Bently.

[grateful]

Oh, I am a "conservative charismatic," too--I'm Dutch, for goodness sake! We are, of all people, sober and unemotional. I remember Sunday school, and singing "I have the joy, joy, joy, joy, down in my heart. Even at about ten years old I wondered if it really had to be THAT deep down.

I was raised in the Reformed tradition and highly value the solid foundation of Bible teaching I received. And now I'm enjoying the freedom and joy I always knew was there.

And with Laina, I am concerned that some of the hoopla of today may set us up to buy into something that looks more genuine, but is not, tomorrow. More reason than ever to experience the joy of clinging closely to the Savior so we won't be fooled by the pretender when he shows up.
Elaine

[Lookin^Up]

Amen, Grateful. Cling tight to Jesus, brothers and sisters. Cling tight! And urge others to do the same. I'm praying for Bently and his followers, that someone will see the true Light of the World and follow Him instead.

[Lookin^Up]

Some so-called 'manifestations of the Spirit' seem plain ludicrous and less than edifying. Though perhaps 'twitching' has some historic reference i.e. in the Shaker and the Quaker movements.
Actually, Keith, the Quaker tradition is more closely tied into working out one's salvation with "fear and trembling," a biblical concept. (Philippians 2:12-13; Ephesians 6:5-6) In other words, enhance the salvation experience by serving God with awesome respect, just as you would serve your boss and attempt to please him. It has nothing to do with fright, but everything to do with being grateful to the God who saved you. In addition, the Holy Spirit would often come on Quaker meetings so strongly that they would physically quake in His presence; hence the name.

Twitching, on the other hand, appears to be the article writer's word; he apparently doesn't understand the work of the Holy Spirit at all. Hence also, the so-called "rift" in the title.

[revbill]

I'm a baptiscostal, b elieving fully in the power and capability of the Holy Spirit but also believing that everything should be done in order and for the edification of the church. Theatrics, unfortunately, turn many away from the church body. Of course greed has a lot to do with it, in my opinion.

[ProfessorAlan]

The church that was the center of the "Toronto Blessing" a decade or so ago ended up being removed from its denominational organization over for not reigning in the excesses and unwillingness to be discliplined by their spiritual overseers.

[Daniel]

I was saved in the 70's too. I really hate labels, but I guess you could describe me as a conservative charismatic.

Jesus said we would know them by their fruits. Bently has loads of bad fruit.

Also........... Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 "Behold, I have told you in advance.

I have this strange feeling that many will get tired of the so called 'wave' movements with the false healings and manifestations. And then someone will come on the scene that will have true healings and miracles and will be a false prophet/teacher and will end up deceiving so many more that will stick with him because his are really happening. Its so easy to know a false prophet/teacher like Bently.

You are right, they will get tired of it and when people do, they'll see the "real thing".

When we look at the history of the wave movement and what they teach, we can get a clearer picture of what they are about. I saw the videos of Bentley and to tell you the truth, I could care less what he looks like; it is what he is teaching, where he gets his teaching from and his actions that bother me. There is to much on healings rather then turning to God, that's the first dead giveaway that this is wrong. The second thing is that this guy claims to speak to an angel named Emma, Um... That to I question. There is no scriptural support for that. If an angel comes teaching a different Gospel other then Christ coming in human form to die for mankind, then it is of Satan. These things have to be tested and tested again. They must be judged within the church and not given the excuse of "God works in mysterious ways", or "God will work it out" or even, worse, "don't judge lest ye be judged".

Well sorry to bust your bubble, but we are responsible. We are the Body of Christ and we must be aware and help others to be aware of what happens and is happening. If we don't, then we aren't looking out for our brothers and sisters in Christ. People will be drawn away and decived, especially when it gets more into the last days. We as Christians shouldn't forget about that, because if we don't, then our excuses will land us in hot water. People ultimately will be, but we must act out of love and concern for our fellow people. Those who are decived, are. Those who are not, should strengthen themselves even more so that they aren't.

I see more and more the reality of what is written in the Letters of Paul and John and it isn't just for then, but it did happen back then, but it was also a foreshadowing of what is happening now (1 John 1:18-25, 4:1-6). Otherwise, how do you explain what all is going on? I'll tell you what gives us a bad name among those who don't believe: us. Lack of responsibility and taking care of our business, lack of love and understanding among our brethern. Those are the things that are a refraction of God's love among the world people. We are so concerned with not wanting to wrong anyone, not wanting offend anyone, we've become to careful and not enough love and respect to stand up against the wrong that is even coming out from us.

American isn't in control. The governments aren't in control. Even our prayers, no matter how many we think we pray or even how rightly, aren't in control. It is God who is in control, God who reigns, God who brings up a nation and tears down a nation. I hope to God we don't forget that, especially in America.

Got that out...

[Lookin^Up]

Well sorry to bust your bubble, but we are responsible. We are the Body of Christ and we must be aware and help others to be aware of what happens and is happening. If we don't, then we aren't looking out for our brothers and sisters in Christ. People will be drawn away and decived, especially when it gets more into the last days. We as Christians shouldn't forget about that, because if we don't, then our excuses will land us in hot water. People ultimately will be, but we must act out of love and concern for our fellow people. Those who are decived, are. Those who are not, should strengthen themselves even more so that they aren't.

I see your point, Daniel, but I'm not sure that a blanket statement like this is valid. It depends in large part whether people will listen to the Body of Christ once we warn them. Some people are, unfortunately, so comfortable in their naïveté that when we warn them against deceivers, they look at us as though we're wearing a sandwich board proclaiming, "The End is Near!"

Here is what God told Ezekiel:

Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out to dissuade him from his ways, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man to turn from his ways and he does not do so, he will die for his sin, but you will have saved yourself. Ezekiel 33:7-9
So yes, it is our duty to warn people against the evils of the world, as we are all watchmen, whether the world likes it or not. But we are not held responsible if they don't listen.

[Daniel]

I see your point, Daniel, but I'm not sure that a blanket statement like this is valid. It depends in large part whether people will listen to the Body of Christ once we warn them. Some people are, unfortunately, so comfortable in their naïveté that when we warn them against deceivers, they look at us as though we're wearing a sandwich board proclaiming, "The End is Near!"

Here is what God told Ezekiel:


So yes, it is our duty to warn people against the evils of the world, as we are all watchmen, whether the world likes it or not. But we are not held responsible if they don't listen.

Exactly :rolleyes: That is why I said: "People will be drawn away and decived, especially when it gets more into the last days. We as Christians shouldn't forget about that, because if we don't, then our excuses will land us in hot water. People ultimately will be, but we must act out of love and concern for our fellow people. Those who are decived, are. Those who are not, should strengthen themselves even more so that they aren't."

[lynnmosher]

We've had a guest evangelist in town for two days. Guess who it is?

[Xenia]

It's not Bently!?

[Daniel]

oh wow, an evangelist to Christians! Hey, I just got that.

Who is it?

[lynnmosher]

Yup! It was Bentley! All over the news.

[grateful]

Were you in attendance? How about a first-hand report? Or second-hand works, too. Was he a big hit in your town?

[lynnmosher]

No, I didn't go. I didn't even know he was here until it was on the 11 o'clock news. They turned thousands away. Had a clip of a woman lying on the stage twitching. Reports of people being healed. Now, what I am about to say, don't get me wrong. I don't go by appearances, but he was, ummm, let's just say he was the most unlikely evangelist I have ever seen. It was just a straight-forward report with a couple of seconds interview with him.

[Daniel]

No, I didn't go. I didn't even know he was here until it was on the 11 o'clock news. They turned thousands away. Had a clip of a woman lying on the stage twitching. Reports of people being healed. Now, what I am about to say, don't get me wrong. I don't go by appearances, but he was, ummm, let's just say he was the most unlikely evangelist I have ever seen. It was just a straight-forward report with a couple of seconds interview with him.

oh man, would have been interesting, so who knows. Anyway... I found a site that had videos of of him teaching and speaking about his "experiences". Very interesting, and scary at the same time.

http://www.toddbentley.org/todd-bentley-videos.htm

Be ready, eh? Listening to him saying these things, and also not finding Scriptures to back him up make me doubt him even more. Why do people go to him?

[Daniel]

Well I did go back to the site, but for some reason, the videos on some of them aren't working, yet others are still. So good luck