The mark of the beast?

[wgjones3]

http://www.rapturechrist.com/666.htm

A while back, there was some discussion of these implantable microchips. This is the best site I've found that explains the technology (with pictures) in pretty easy-to-understand language.

[Gumpngreen]

I'd only be leery of these devices IF a worldwide government headed by a single person was forcing everyone to receive one. Otherwise, getting upset about them and refusing to use them for beneficial means is just silly.

[Merry]

Well, Gump, I don't think there is a question that this technology is helpful and good when used correctly. However, I see no problem in educating people to it's existance /function. You know very well how many
things have begun with the best of intentions only to be dragged down the wrong path by our societal and ethical entropy. Life is best lived with the eyes opened.

[Gumpngreen]

Well, let's just say that the US government decided to implement them as a "Citizen ID" or something. Most likely I'd refuse to have one primarily due to privacy concerns since it would have to emit some sort of signal which "possibly" might be trackable or accessible by non-government snoopers or stolen by Identity thieves (for stealing my SS or something). Then again, once I'm all old-and-ancient I wouldn't mind having a GPS tracker just in case I have a heart attack so an ambulance can find me(though I'd be aware that most likely non-governmental companies might be able to track me also).

[Merry]

All well and good; in the same circumstance, I wouldn't mind one either. However, the point is when it comes to the end time disscussion, mark of the beast stuff...etc, I don't think there is going to be any great point where one day the law is do such and such or die. It would hurt the devil's cause too much to leave room for great stands against him. I think it will be more like the frog that starts in cool water and slowly boils, I mean, I'm sure the Bible doesn't say the very elect will be deceived for nothing. People will be talked out of their faith a millimeter at a time...just like now. Bottom line, technology is wonderful, just be aware of the implications and consequences thereof.

[wgjones3]

Well, as for the chip, it's just a logical progression from national ID card--which was being pushed as recently as fall '03--to cashless society to implantable chip (for a great fictional account of this process, check out Larry Burkett's The Illuminati). Similar, though less sophisticated, methods have been used before by totalitarian dictators to enslave entire populations throughout modern history. Seeing as how the constitution was basically gutted with the passage of the USA PATRIOT ACT in October 2001, I think it would be nieve to think that these chips don't already have a purpose. In fact, I heard the FDA recently approved an implantable microchip for the treatment of depression. Maybe all this is paranoia and one day we'll look back with the same cringe we have now when we think of days when shock therapy, hydrotherapy, and labotomies were commonly practiced mothods of treating the "mentally sick". But the fear is there--just look at the 2004 version of the Manchurian Candidate.

Will these chips be the mark of the beast? It darn near seems like every evangelical in the U.S. thinks so. It was, after all, an implantable microchip that Jenkins/LaHaye used as the mark of the best in the Left Behind series. Of course, back in the '70s, the widespread believe among evengelical circles was that the mark would be a bar-code tattoo. Remember that James Cameron show where the chick had the bar-code tattooed on her neck? That was circa 1997 or 1998, I believe.

Personally, from what I've studied, I have a different view of the Mark. I personally believe it's a spiritual mark--the mark on the forehead being representitive of evil thoughts and the mark on the hand being representitive of evil actions. I know many people will say that the book of Revelation clearly states no one can buy or sell without the mark, and I believe that's true, but buying and selling might be conducted via retina and thumb scans, and only those loyal to the Antichrist government will be registered into the system. All others will simply vanish. Would it be too crazy to think that if a band of purported Christian fanatics started blowing up buildings that a massive witch-hunt would ensue? And only those who renounced Christ would be allowed to have bank accounts or drivers licences or even own property?

Anyway, I didn't post this as a debate on the evils of technology--though it's not the technology that's evil, it's the planned use of said technology. Technology in and of itself is ammoral. To argue otherwise is booth foolish and ignorant.

And Merry, I wonder how many so-called Christian denominations have already stolen the faith of their followers by feeding them a lie and presenting them a false god to worship?

[Merry]

Well put. ;)

[Mr. Otis]

I'm not prepared to call the bio-chip the mark of the beast, but the potential for abuse is very real.

The government is very much behind the use of the chip. It was featured a couple months ago at the "Healthier US Summit" in Baltimore, a conference sponsored by Health & Human Services to promote technologies that will improve the health of Americans in the 21st century.

The chip stores information and broadcasts it to readers. It is presented as a means of storing medical and identity information. Okay, fine. Clearly the chips will need to be rewritable so that medical data can be updated. How do I know that what's being put on the chip is only what I've been told?

And how do I know the chip isn't being used as a means of tracking my movements?

I believe the biochip is used as a control device in the remake of The Manchurian Candidate. The chip is also a central plot device in my wife's new novel, The Armageddon Strain, and I borrowed it for The God Conspiracy, although we took liberties with what's possible given current technology--I hope.

Convenience and security will be the selling points. I believe most people will buy in on that basis. Whether the chips are used for anything beyond the purposes stated remains to be seen, but the history of governments in this world makes me pessimistic.

[Merry]

Mr. Otis, as usual, made several good points. However, let me go back to something WIlliam said......"..though it's not the technology that's evil, it's the planned use of said technology. Technology in and of itself is ammoral. To argue otherwise is both foolish and ignorant..." It just occurred to me that according to the laws of our land there are inanimate objects which the government considers to be of themselves, evil. Like guns. Look at all the laws on the books denying this type of weapon, that type...I realize there are various reasons and some are necessary, but many of them simply hold the object to blame for lawlessnes rather than the holder of the object. (Yup, I thought my Ruger was actin' a bit ancy the other day. Got's ta watch out fer them guns, hair trigger, the whole lot of them...)


But in the same way these objects are considered morally 'bad' it will be interesting to see the steps they take with chip technology to associate it with moral 'goodness.' When of course, Bill is right, there's no good or bad, as they're just dumb objects anyway, it's all in the use....

[wgjones3]

Don't even get me started on gun control. 90% of the population is so ignorant about guns that it wouldn't take much to scare them. I keep watching (and reading) the news and it just blows me away how stupid the people talking about guns sound--simply because they're too lazy to learn something about firearms.

I always get particularly livid when every news report about a shooting seems to site the ominous "automatic" pistol or "automatic" rifle or "assualt" rifle--even if the weapon in question was a revolver or only fired one round. But what really ticks me off is that it's been illegal to own automatic weapons in this country without a special permit since the 1930s! Like Dr. Honvid said in one of his siminars--the Columbine killers broke 18 seperate gun laws to commit their crime. Would two more have stopped them?

[Merry]

It's really the same problem the Pharisee's had in Jesus's time, thinking that the Law would clean up mankind. We don't recognize God's authority so we turn to man's law, man's opinion, which is, basically, dumb.

[Mr. Otis]

Amen and amen. The technology itself is amazing and could be used for some genuine good. The problem is that its us people using it.

[Zanzibar]

I agree with all that you guys are saying and just wanted to add one thing.

You won't be able to get the Mark of the Beast accidentally. It's not going to be, "Ooops! Sorry! You have the Mark of the Beast you can't come into heaven!" with us standing there checking our bodies over in quizical amazement thinking, "I did? When in the world did I do that?" :confused:

The Mark, whatever form it takes, is going to be something done, I beleive, as a sign of loyalty to the Antichrist. Whether done emphatically or grudgingly won't matter because you will know that in taking that mark, again whatever form it takes, you are siding with the man in power.

I do think Merry is right in pointing out though that this is going to seem harmless and even bennificial because it is going to have been S-L-O-W-L-Y implemented with truly innocent uses at first.

When I look at this homosexual marriage issue I see this. First the Enemy convinced our country that these poor people are born this way and so can't help themselves, and now look how far that lie has escalated?

Lynnette

[wgjones3]

You won't be able to get the Mark of the Beast accidentally. It's not going to be, "Ooops! Sorry! You have the Mark of the Beast you can't come into heaven!" with us standing there checking our bodies over in quizical amazement thinking, "I did? When in the world did I do that?" :confused:

Exactly right. Like I said above, I think it won't be so much a mark of acceptance of the antichrist as it will be a mark of rejection of Christ--spiritual or literal. The chip really isn't necessary, retinal scans and thumbprints can serve the exact same purpose. But I find it very interesting that the technology is being ushered in only after years of speculation that implantable chips will be the mark of the beast--as if someone or something were trying to accelerate the course of events leading to the end times? Which may be why there are so many attempts at making peace in the Middle East.

[Merry]

I have to admit, whenever I read articles or posts about these implant thingys, one song start playing in my head..."I see a bad moon risin'..I know there's trouble on the way...." A little end time theme music, if you will.

[wgjones3]

Funny, the song that goes through my head is that old 3 Dog Night song Eli's Coming...