intelligibility...?

[nHissvc]

Is the "unknown tongue", in the following scripture, known to the speaker?:


"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church." (1 Corinthians 14:4)

[jacks girl]

All I can say is that when I speak in tongues I don't know what i'm saying. I have never prayed for the gift to interput so therefore I have not known what I'm saying. sometimes you feel things like one time I felt i was saying father.

Other times you just don't know. Speaking in tongues for me is usually in praise to my Father or in prayer and there is also the groaning where you don't know what to pray for but you pray in a moaning groaning like way.

Most of the time people that speak in tongues don't tell you what they said cause it means more and is more astounding to have another person stand up and say they said this or that. This is the way i have found this to be anyway. At times to I have heard of people speaking in a tongue and someone can understand that in their own native tongue. I've never seen this but have heard of it.

Jacks

[lynnmosher]

Sometimes it is known to the speaker and sometimes it isn't.

[jacks girl]

True Lynn, I think where it is hard for me to make a decision it would be hard for me to know i was interupting correctly that is why i have never prayed for it.

[Lookin^Up]

The whole point of speaking in tongues is to verbally use a language you neither know nor have learned. That's why visitors to Jerusalem were astonished when the disciples spoke in tongues at Pentecost. These mostly uneducated fishermen were uttering words and phrases the visitors could understand, and that caught their attention.

One thing I'm wondering is, The Way International feigns speaking in tongues by babbling anything, and the "interpreter" speaks whatever comes to mind, not related to the babbling. How can we tell the difference between the genuine article and the fake?

[Laina]

I have been told by friends to just blurt something out. They were more interested in me joining the "speaking in tongues" group than anything else.

Here is what the scriptures tell us as to how we are to judge.

1 Cor 14:26 What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

The one who speaks in a tongue is speaking to himself and God. If you prophecy you are edifying and building up the body of Christ. Tongues are of no value unless someone interprets. Paul said to prophecy is the better gift.

1 Cor 14 is a great explanation on the topic of tongues.

[nHissvc]

I could not fill a thimble with what I know about this subject (and most others...lol) so thanks for your lending your understanding.

Oftentimes answers tend to generate more questions/thoughts on the subject, some of which I have included below (If you sense the dreaded circular or otherwise specious reasoning, mercifully help me off of that ride...lol):



The "unknown tongues" of "1 Corinthians 14" do not appear to be what occurred at Pentecost of "Acts 2". Though, the occurrences appear to intersect at these verses of scripture:



"In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe." (1 Corinthians 14:21-22)



"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:" (Acts 2:16-18)




I can't say that I am certain that they did not understand what they were saying, as other accounts of utterance provided by the "Spirit" don't seem to preclude the recipients' understanding what is uttered.

They could have in fact been speaking, prophetically, in a tongue that was not their own because the "Spirit" appears to have acted as Interpreter.



Also, if edification is realized through prophecy and prophesying is accomplished via interpretation and interpretation can be characterized as the conveyance of understanding then I wonder how the following verse can be true if the "speaker" does not "know" (understand) what is being uttered:


"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church." (1 Corinthians 14:4)


Does this verse also imply (the speaker's) understanding?:


"Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful." (1 Corinthians 14:13-14)



--Thanks again,
--Blessings

[swiftarrow23]

There are tongues that represent any one of the languages of earth, and then there is the heavenly language. As far as the heavenly tongue goes, I believe something is lost in translation. Reading Romans 8:26, we find "groanings which cannot be uttered." And I in turn find myself staring into the vastness of the universe as the stars reflect their surveyed history of the earth, I a speck within the grand design, a speck which can only utter a groan in response. "Uh-uh-"

Then God, turning back to me, peering through the bright grace of His Son, interprets the groans of a mindless speck into triumphant praise.

Romans 8:26 (King James Version)

26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

[Lookin^Up]

Does one have to understand the words in order to be edified by the Spirit's action in his soul? Not necessarily. There is much we don't know about this topic because there is much about it that is spiritually generated. We don't know how we get the gift of tongues, we don't know what methods the Spirit uses to put the words in our mouths.

Laina probably came up with the most concise answer we can give on the speaking of tongues. Trying to understand it beyond that is delving into the spiritual nature of it, which we (limited human beings that we are) cannot possibly understand.

I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

While speaking in tongues is a "flashy" gift that can lead to self-pride, the point of any spiritual gift is to edify the church, and the gift of prophecy evidently does more toward that end, even though it's subtler.

So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.

I could say a lot more, but I think the emphasis on strengthening the church is the most important aspect of the whole topic. And again, we can only know the tip of the iceberg; also, "tongues ... are a sign ... for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers" (truncation of verse 22). Let's never lose sight of the fact we are not here to aggrandize ourselves, but to build the church and bring unbelievers closer to God.

[nHissvc]

Wow...thanks for all the thoughtful replies to this question...

Please, forgive the tardiness of this reply:

I agree, Lookin...

I was actually thinking along the same lines.

Perhaps I am interpreting too literally, particularly, the final passage quoted,
"1 Corinthians 14:13-14", which seems to indicate that the language barrier prevents the dissemination of the speaker's understanding, precluding its fruitfulness.

This topic is of great interest to me as there appears to be such a diversity of opinion, in the body, regarding tongues.

I do so, however, appreciate the collegial and otherwise edifying atmosphere of this forum! Which certainly facilitates my own endeavor to walk closer with God.

Thanks again for your support...

--Blessings