What makes them successful?

[kdawgs34]

I want to know from writers opinions. I have my own. What do you think really makes John Grisham, Stephen King, Jan Karon, Frank Peretti, and etc.. so successful? Don't give me just talent and learning the craft. Is it more than that? Give me your ideas.

[kshsj777]

They wrote stories that drew people in, made up characters people loved and identified with. You have to have a good story, a story worth telling, and characters worth spending time with. I don't know what else to say than that.

We can only hope to write the second best story in the universe... because God has already written the first--reality!

[Tamera]

Talent, timing, hard work, and a great story. Also, they probably didn't give up when they got 30 rejection letters in the mail before their first novel was published.

[melw]

i am sure Luck had a part to play (maybe like timing). Often it is meeting right people. having a fresh stories. But all the things tam said too.

MEL

[Phy]

Simple perseverance. Perseverance alone is what sets the masters apart from the wannabes. Everything else can be learned or honed with enough time and effort and will.

[Katharine]

They wrote stories that drew people in, made up characters people loved and identified with.

And, I would add, they had enough material in their heads to keep the stories going. If Jan Karon had one good story in her, just the beginning of the Mitford series, that would have been nice. But she crafted the first one in such a way that the characters had plenty more to say, more to experience, in subsequent visits. Similar thought with regard to the others you mentioned. Although they may not have written multiple books in the same series, these authors had creativity and style and voice and technique enough to carry them through into more projects that were then published.

My smart-alec answer was going to be... What made them successful? They sold many different titles!

[pprmint777]

Although I haven't read many of the authors you list, I have read several John Grisham books. His story lines are compelling, his settings vivid, his characters multi-faceted and believable.

His politics drive me nuts.

But his stories are consistently good. He's earned a reputation of being a good read, and has a dedicated following because of it.

[michaelsnyder]

My feeling on this one is that the 'why' behind every raging success story, is...ironically enough, a story. If there were a way to distill commercial success down to a formula or catchphrase or character trait, I think someone way smarter than me would have discovered it (and would be making gazillions of dollars from it!!!).

For instance, rumor has it that Perretti's first book was doing nothing sales-wise until Amy Grant held it up at a concert and praised it publicly to her already adoring fans. Seems hard to believe that such an avalanche off success would follow...or does it? Jesus told twelve humble dudes a story and told them to spread the word. And all these years later, this very community is hinged upon that very story.

In the case of Grisham, I know he bought like 10,000 copies of his own book and trucked all over Mississippi selling them by hand. Still, I contend that you could take 49 other authors in the other 49 states and still not duplicate his success...or even come close.

They say that word-of-mouth is the key. That seems the most plausible to me. But for me anyway, I can't think about that. When I sit down to start my new novel next week, I can't be thinking about some small group of people (two years hence!) who may or may not fall in love with my character and/or story, then set about telling everyone they know to buy two copies. If I'm thinking about that--or worse, trying to predict it in some way--then I can't do my work, which is to write my story.

Maybe it's a little like spreading the gospel. I'm only responsible for sharing the good news when the opportunity rises--I'm a steward of the talent/time/opportunity I'm given. But I'm really not accountable for someone else's decision.

I do sincerely and whole-heartedly believe that the better my story is, the better chance it has to reach more people. And since I'll never write a perfect book, that means I have a TON of work to do. So I have to just focus on that.

Great discussion. And if it's okay, I might like to throw another question (or two) into the mix:

-Do you actually believe that 'word-of-mouth' is the way books catch fire?
-If so, what books (or characteristics of certain books) has caused that feeling to well up inside you where you just HAD to tell somebody about it?

Mike

[Tommie Lyn]

Great discussion. And if it's okay, I might like to throw another question (or two) into the mix:

-Do you actually believe that 'word-of-mouth' is the way books catch fire?
-If so, what books (or characteristics of certain books) has caused that feeling to well up inside you where you just HAD to tell somebody about it?


I've read comments by many industry insiders (agents and editors) who say that word-of-mouth is what makes a book catch fire -- not covers, not publicity. That's why publishers send pre-launch copies out -- to try to create that "buzz" before the book hits the shelves.

As far as why I tell people about books that have grabbed me, I'm thinking about that, wondering. One of Dean Koontz's books that I've talked about a lot (Dragon Tears) -- and this is still ongoing years after I read it -- is because one of the POV characters is a dog. I was so amazed that he so realistically captured what seems to be a dog's thoughts that the book has stayed with me for years.

About a year ago, I started reading Janet Evanovich's Stephanie Plum novels, and those books have stayed in my mind and I talk about them. Not totally sure why, since there's bad language and vulgar situations in them that would normally make me put a book down and not pick it up again. But that didn't happen with these books. (I've tried and tried to analyze what it is that made Evanovich able to slip past my self-censoring mechanism. Still not totally sure how she did it.)

First of all, the characterization is amazing. And the MC, Stephanie Plum, reveals everything about herself, the embarrassing things as well as the good -- and it seems to put me deep within her psyche, makes me feel I understand her and can identify with her on some things. Stephanie is forthcoming about her mistakes but doesn't seem to realize how kind and forebearing she is with others and glosses over that -- but we see it as readers.

Secondly, Evanovich is consistently laugh-out-loud hilarious. That's a quality that is hard to come by these days, so it makes her stand out from the crowd.

[righter1]

I'd have to say perseverence, along with a great story...

But, you can't underestimate marketing... regardless if it's the word-of-mouth kind or the ad kind.

[Tarin]

1. A memorable story.

2. An insane amount of diligence.

3. A little bit of luck.

In that order... :cool:

[Timber Wolf]

Although I haven't read many of the authors you list, I have read several John Grisham books. His story lines are compelling, his settings vivid, his characters multi-faceted and believable.

His politics drive me nuts.

....



His endings drive me nuts. I gave up reading him because of that.




....

Great discussion. And if it's okay, I might like to throw another question (or two) into the mix:

-Do you actually believe that 'word-of-mouth' is the way books catch fire?
-If so, what books (or characteristics of certain books) has caused that feeling to well up inside you where you just HAD to tell somebody about it?

Mike

I'll second that. As far as word-of-mouth - well I'm reading Gravity's book Until the Last Dog Dies right now because of various discussions on here. I starting reading Peretti because of word of mouth. I had started the first "Darkness" book and put it down after two or three pages (if I even got that far), then ended up hearing how great it is and finally made it past the first few pgs, and BAM! read it in a week or so (could only read a chptr or two in the eve after homework after all).

Same for Gravity's book - once I got it home from the library and started reading it had me hooked. So word-of-mouth may get me to look at the book, but a good opening (what that maybe is a topic for another thread) keeps me reading.

As far as "just having to tell somebody," I'm not that type of personality. But if someone says they've never seen (read) LotR, I'm like "WHAT! What's wrong with you?) Don't know that I can give a list of characteristics that would cause me to go tell everybody "You gotta read this book."

[tlm]

Simple perseverance.

I am a Michael Crichton fan and have been editing my own WIP as I read his novel and realized that I needed to fill in more about my own characters, make them seem more real. I also needed to fill in more of my setting. My 2 dimensional story needed to have more depth to meke it 3 dimensional.

In that way, reading can make us better writers.

[Tommie Lyn]

But if someone says they've never seen (read) LotR, I'm like "WHAT! What's wrong with you?)

I've never seen (or read) LotR. :cool:

And don't have any desire to do so.

[Walk]

One of my new favorites is Robert Liparulo and I would have never would have picked one of his books up if it wasn't for a book review blog that a cyberfriend has. I've gotten two books on order, "My Name Is Russell Fink" and "To Skin A Cat" that I heard of from somewhere, I don't remember where :>), but they are next on my list.

[Zanzibar]

Walk, Michael Snyder from a few posts up wrote 'My Name is Russel Fink.' :)

Michael - are you from the Northwest? I ask because I was just at a writers group last month here in Bothell and that is the first place I heard about the Amy Grant/Frank Peretti concert promo connection. Not sure if I beleive it ... but hey..., If I could get Jars of Clay, or Mercy Me to hold up one of my books at a concert I would wholeheartedly be appreciative! LOL

[Laina]

If you are a believer, luck has nothing to do with it. If God is leading and guiding you, it isn't luck. And for unbelieving authors, I don't think it is luck either.

There is allot of hard work that goes into writing a book. If you don't have talent you won't get published. If you do have talent, you must compete with authors that are trying to break into print also. And compete with those who are already published authors.

Work hard.
Know the market.
Pray, pray, pray.
Write, write, write.
Take courses.
Hone your craft.
Pray, pray, pray.
Write, write, write.
Find a good agent.
Go to conferences.
Pray, pray, pray.
Write, write, write.
Know how to query.
Write what the publishers want.
Pray, pray, pray.
Write, write, write.
Know what a cover letter is.
Know what a proposal letter is.
Pray, pray, pray.
Write, write, write.

[Walk]

[QUOTE=Zanzibar;163118]Walk, Michael Snyder from a few posts up wrote 'My Name is Russel Fink.' :)

Zanzibar, that was my attempt at humor, granted a poor attempt. John Robinson wrote "To Skin A Cat", both of these wise ones are sharing their wisdom here with knotheads like me. That was my point, using the internet by being active on sites as this and using the book review sites are ways to get our work out to the public. Without finding these authors on this site, I wouldn't be able to enjoy their work because chances are, I wouldn't have heard about them otherwise.

[michaelsnyder]

Walk, you're officially on my list of new favorite people then...both for reading my book and for the second use of the word 'knothead."

Zanzibar...I am from Virginia, but we have lived just south of Nashville for about a decade now. I do go to church with the Jars of Clay guys, but so far I haven't seen them holding my book up. Maybe I should take copies to church and pelt the Jars with them. At some point they'd HAVE to hold one up, just to get it off them...then I could snap a picture! If it works, thank you. If I end up in jail, guess who's getting that one phone call? (On a more somber note, the last time I saw Steven Curtis Chapman and his sweet daughter, they were both holding copies of my book. Please continue to pray for the Chapman family...)

And Timber Wolf...alas, I have seen LoTR but have yet to read the books. If it's any consolation, my 10 year old daughter has read them all! And my wife has read them multiple times. I do realize this confession may get me banned from certain segments (namely, the intersection of literature and Christianity), but I cannot tell a lie. (And it's funny, we have a rule in our house that no one's allowed to see a movie if they haven't read the book--provided there is a corresponding book, of course. So that makes the head of the household the chief of sinners!)

[Gravity]

Ya'll are gonna turn my head if you keep talking nice about me. I'm not used to it! :D

[michaelsnyder]

Okay John, before you apply the heating pad or Ben Gay to that neck of yours, please tell me which of your books I should read first. Then I promise to only say nice stuff about you if it's true!

Thanks,

Mike

[michaelsnyder]

I went with To Skin A Cat...amazon says I'll have it next week some time. So when I'm done with Toole's Confederacy of Dunces, you're up! Looking forward to it.

[Zanzibar]

:o

Sorry, Walk. I didn't catch that you were being funny. That is the problem with sarchasm and forums - sometimes if you don't know the person too well it just doesn't come through. My bad.

And I learned something! I didn't realize that Gravity wrote the other book.

Way to go you two!

Michael, I laughed out loud at the image of you pelting the Jars with your book! Too funny. And yes - the Chapman family has been heavy on my heart in the last few days. I've been praying for the son especially. What a heavy weight to have to carry.

Off to check out Gravity's books...

[VLSmith]

I think two elements of their success are their branding and their productivity.

All of these writers, at least until they established themselves, wrote in a particular genre, wrote it well and published consistently, keeping their names in the marketplace. Their names became synonymous with their area of expertise. Who doesn't think of Stephen King when someone mentions thrillers or Grisham if it's legal thrillers? If King had published Carrie and then a children's picture book and then a cookbook, he would not be the powerhouse he is today. Or if he had taken off four or five years in between books.

Do you want to be a one hit wonder, just see your name in print or are you in it for the long haul? If so, you might have to sacrifice something in the beginning to reach your goal. I think these people made sacrifices and it paid off for them. I think there were stories they were itching to write, but it didn't fit in with their brand, not at the time. But once they reached their goal and established themselves as the top dog, then they could afford to take a side trip.

That's my take on it.

[jacks girl]

I think it is as others have said.

Working hard
Being in the right place at the right time,
Faith in your own work
Loving what you do and having the time and money to pursue your work.
Knowing how the system works
Never listeing when people tell you no

The biggie is ........
being good at what you do.

[Timber Wolf]

I've never seen (or read) LotR. :cool:

And don't have any desire to do so.

"What! What's wrong with you?" :D I know, not everybody likes fantasy.





....

Michael - are you from the Northwest? I ask because I was just at a writers group last month here in Bothell and that is the first place I heard about the Amy Grant/Frank Peretti concert promo connection. Not sure if I beleive it ... but hey..., If I could get Jars of Clay, or Mercy Me to hold up one of my books at a concert I would wholeheartedly be appreciative! LOL

Cool, me too. I go to Cedar Park. You?


[QUOTE=Zanzibar;163118]Walk, Michael Snyder from a few posts up wrote 'My Name is Russel Fink.' :)

Zanzibar, that was my attempt at humor, granted a poor attempt. John Robinson wrote "To Skin A Cat", both of these wise ones are sharing their wisdom here with knotheads like me. That was my point, using the internet by being active on sites as this and using the book review sites are ways to get our work out to the public. Without finding these authors on this site, I wouldn't be able to enjoy their work because chances are, I wouldn't have heard about them otherwise.

Walk - I'm reading Gravity's "Dogs" which comes before "Cat" and I still didn't get that it was his book you were ref to. Didn't catch the ":>)" you tacked in : D (without the space ends up being more obvious, just to let you know).

Also, didn't recognize "My Name Is Russell Fink" as being michaelsnyder's book. But yes we are blessed with having published authors visit our little family. Thanks all.

Also, I was going to say earlier that when I actually picked up "Dogs" from the library I looked at the cover and thought Huh, I could sweat I've seen this book before. Don't know if it is from visiting Grvity's website and seeing the cover there, or if I remember seeing it on the shelves at the local Christian bookstore. So many books, so little time.





....

(On a more somber note, the last time I saw Steven Curtis Chapman and his sweet daughter, they were both holding copies of my book. Please continue to pray for the Chapman family...)

....



Yes, let's do remember to continue praying for them. I just can't imagine how the son feels.


And Timber Wolf...alas, I have seen LoTR but have yet to read the books. If it's any consolation, my 10 year old daughter has read them all! And my wife has read them multiple times. I do realize this confession may get me banned from certain segments (namely, the intersection of literature and Christianity), but I cannot tell a lie. (And it's funny, we have a rule in our house that no one's allowed to see a movie if they haven't read the book--provided there is a corresponding book, of course. So that makes the head of the household the chief of sinners!)


ARRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!! OK, I forgive you, at least you've seen the movie. And good for your daughter - 10 years old and has read them multiple times, has me beat. I was in my 20s before I finally got them from the library and got them read. And as far as not watching hte movie before reading the book, well, there would be many books I would not have read as I read the book only after watching the movie.

[Zanzibar]

Timber,

I used to go to Cedar Park in high school and college - used to teach Sunday School there. Now my dh is an AG pastor so I go to his church. :D We live in South Everett.

Do you go to the Northwest Christian Writers meetings on the first Monday of every month? (They are taking a break for the summer now, but will resume in Sept.) I just recently started going - last month was my first time. Cecil Murphy was there. Then I went again this month. I havn't been writing for awhile, but I'm glad to be getting back to it now. Anyhow, if you go to the meetings I'd love to say 'hi' sometime.

[Joe]

What makes them sell? I would say a type of'craziness'. I imagine Geniuses are guys walking about with their thinking juices running the wrong way. Only that when it runs the wrong way, it also produces great results.

I believe writers need to have a measure of this type of craziness. Like Stephen King in THE MIST. Not every human being wakes up in the morning thinking 'what if I went to the store and we all got trapped in there by a predator-breeding fog that has rolled in from across the lake?'

You have to have something in your head twicked in a strange way to write something that publishers would imagine as A STAND-OUT PIECE. I have read almost all Stephen king books, and if there is one thing he has in his whole life, it is 'craziness.'

Or put in differently, they think out of the box. Start from there, and string on perseverance, faith in yourself (not the conceited type), timing, and hard work.

So when a shrink says to you, 'You are a strange bird.', go home, pick up pen and paper while the comment's still hot! (laughs)

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

In the case of Christopher Paolini:

1. a very sheltered prodigy boy (yuck)
2. the marketing behind his books was insanely good
3. word of mouth spread his books popularity like wildfire
4. fantasy is the epic you noes?
5. Christopher believed in his books (even though most writers did not)

[Zanzibar]

Warrior,

2. the marketing behind his books was insanely good

What was different than most authors as far as marketing?

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

I don't know, but his marketing team did an excellent job.
You've heard how well his books sold. It wasn't due to talent.
Maybe someone else knows more about the marketing of his books?

[David Meigs]

I hadn’t heard of the connection between Amy Grant and Frank Peretti. Cool! !thumbsup!

...but I'm not suprised. :)

[Timber Wolf]

Timber,

I used to go to Cedar Park in high school and college - used to teach Sunday School there. Now my dh is an AG pastor so I go to his church. :D We live in South Everett.

Do you go to the Northwest Christian Writers meetings on the first Monday of every month? (They are taking a break for the summer now, but will resume in Sept.) I just recently started going - last month was my first time. Cecil Murphy was there. Then I went again this month. I havn't been writing for awhile, but I'm glad to be getting back to it now. Anyhow, if you go to the meetings I'd love to say 'hi' sometime.


Cool!! I haven't been to the meetings. Thanks for telling me about them. I go to meetings at CP that meet 4 times a mnth, 3 mnths out of the year - SEP, FEB, MAY (this last year), I just started in SEP. They are aimed at people writing stories to be left behind as a "reflection" of one's life to those who come behind. I also go to the Bothell library group that meets on Fri, 'cept I haven't been for awhile. Got a link to NWCW?



What makes them sell? I would say a type of'craziness'. I imagine Geniuses are guys walking about with their thinking juices running the wrong way. Only that when it runs the wrong way, it also produces great results.

I believe writers need to have a measure of this type of craziness. Like Stephen King in THE MIST. Not every human being wakes up in the morning thinking 'what if I went to the store and we all got trapped in there by a predator-breeding fog that has rolled in from across the lake?'

You have to have something in your head twicked in a strange way to write something that publishers would imagine as A STAND-OUT PIECE. I have read almost all Stephen king books, and if there is one thing he has in his whole life, it is 'craziness.'

Or put in differently, they think out of the box. Start from there, and string on perseverance, faith in yourself (not the conceited type), timing, and hard work.

So when a shrink says to you, 'You are a strange bird.', go home, pick up pen and paper while the comment's still hot! (laughs)


Well said. I tutored a lady in college and she knew Stephen King growing up. She said he was as "weird" in real-life as were is books.



In the case of Christopher Paolini:

1. a very sheltered prodigy boy (yuck)
2. the marketing behind his books was insanely good
3. word of mouth spread his books popularity like wildfire
4. fantasy is the epic you noes?
5. Christopher believed in his books (even though most writers did not)


"Eragon"?



I hadn’t heard of the connection between Amy Grant and Frank Peretti. Cool! !thumbsup!

...but I'm not suprised. :)

Speaking of Peretti (and of CP from the earlier note above) -

Peretti was at Cedar Park this past Sunday.






















No not Frank. His older brother. He is a missionary to Italy and last week was our church's missionary Sunday. Their dad used to pastor at CP, 20 odd years ago. Also, I was visiting my brother 4-5 years ago, and my niece gets home and sees me and walks over and tells me "Frank Peretti's brother is my high school concilor." I tell her "no he's not." She grins at me and shakes her head "uh, huh." I asked her to ask him to get Frank's autograph - "nope" she says. So close, yet so far. One time I picked up our local "Northwest Christian Journal," there's an article about Frank speaking somewhere or other. I look at the date, it was the PREVIOUS Sunday. AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for hijacking the htread. We now return control of your set back to you.

(Can you tell though, that I like Peretti's books, and therefore think he's "successful?")

[David Meigs]

...I asked her to ask him to get Frank's autograph - "nope" she says. So close, yet so far. ...:rolleyes: lol - then I probably shouldn't tell you that I got my copy of This Present Darkness from a box under his kitchen table.

Frank's success was due to more than just his incredible talent. It was a God thing. But you would have had to been there to really understand. It's a looooong story... :o

[Tommie Lyn]

In the case of Christopher Paolini:

3. word of mouth spread his books popularity like wildfire



Hmmm. Think about that point for just a minute. Paolini may or may not be a talented writer (I have no opinion about that as I haven't read his books), BUT.....someone enjoyed reading it (apparently a lot of someones), otherwise there would have been no word of mouth.

And isn't that the name of the game? Writing such that people will enjoy reading your work? I'd rather have lots of people reading and enjoying what I write rather than have critical acclaim. My aim in writing is to be read.....

[Gina123]

What is a LoTR book?? (since everyone seems to know) :)

As for what makes a book/author successful, I don't know. I have not achieved that status so its a mystery to me. My cousin has published quite a few articles but just recently published his first book. Its non-fiction and he has managed to get reviews by some well known folk. His book is
"All Things Must Fight To Live" (Bryan Mealer). Thats kind of a long name for a book title but I guess it works for him.

I'm hoping for the blessing of God on my story telling!!

[whitehawke]

:rolleyes: lol - then I probably shouldn't tell you that I got my copy of This Present Darkness from a box under his kitchen table.

That would have been sooo cool! !thumbsup!

Frank's success was due to more than just his incredible talent. It was a God thing. But you would have had to been there to really understand. It's a looooong story... :o

Amen to that! :):cool:

[righter1]

What is a LoTR book?? (since everyone seems to know) :)


LoTR is short-hand for "Lord of the Rings" by J.R.R. Tolkien.

[Timber Wolf]

:rolleyes: lol - then I probably shouldn't tell you that I got my copy of This Present Darkness from a box under his kitchen table.

Frank's success was due to more than just his incredible talent. It was a God thing. But you would have had to been there to really understand. It's a looooong story... :o


No, I guess you shouldn't. :D
I guess being "a semi-retired youth minister" has it's advantages. It looks like my sources tell me you're not to far from where Frank is rumored to have his house.

And yes, I have heard bits of his story on Focus on the Family about he broke into getting published.



What is a LoTR book?? (since everyone seems to know) :)

....



"Lord of the Rings"

[Gina123]

Smack on the head! LoTR----of course its Lord of the Rings! Ha! Thanks!

[David Meigs]

No, I guess you shouldn't. :D
I guess being "a semi-retired youth minister" has it's advantages. It looks like my sources tell me you're not to far from where Frank is rumored to have his house.

And yes, I have heard bits of his story on Focus on the Family about he broke into getting published...:rolleyes: In my case, semi-retired means they won't let me retire. I am presently (still) a youth pastor at a small Assembly of God church in my neck of the boondocks. :D

Frank used to be a local boy (Vashon Is), but he moved to the other side of the state. I don't blame him either. It must have been difficult with all the success. These days I only see him when he is on the television or when his band is playing somewhere (he's plays banjo in a bluegrass band). Before I read Mike's full post, I misunderstood and thought he was saying that Frank played briefly with Amy Grant. :o

I hope you get to meet him someday. He's a wonderful man and was a good friend to me at the lowest time of my life. :)

[Katharine]

I'm not sure what's more interesting in this thread -- the Pacific Northwest connections, or the ideas about "success." Maybe these two topics have something in common, though, going back to knowing somebody who knows somebody who has read something and talked about it, and so on, and so on.

But, though I hate to say it, I do think it's significant for a writer to hit on a "brand" that he/she can use to spin multiple stories. Find an audience, keep your audience, grow that audience. (I hate to admit that because I hate being put in a box.)

[Timber Wolf]

....

Frank used to be a local boy (Vashon Is), but he moved to the other side of the state. I don't blame him either. It must have been difficult with all the success.

....

I hope you get to meet him someday. He's a wonderful man and was a good friend to me at the lowest time of my life. :)


Somebody told me they thought he had lived in Idaho, so they must of heard he moved east, anyway.


And I do too. I'm sure he is. I can't imagine him being any other way after reading his book "Broken Spirit."
Wish I could met his brother, I was busy Sunday nigh after gettng ripped off (see prayer request thread).



I'm not sure what's more interesting in this thread -- the Pacific Northwest connections, or the ideas about "success." Maybe these two topics have something in common, though, going back to knowing somebody who knows somebody who has read something and talked about it, and so on, and so on.

....



My thoughts exactly.

[Louchiere]

In my opinion, if you do the research, alot of it is just plain luck. And someone with money to back you. Just being honest here.

[Tamera]

In my opinion, if you do the research, alot of it is just plain luck. And someone with money to back you. Just being honest here.

I don't know. That may have a part in it. But I can't believe that people will continue to buy somebody's work forever if he doesn't have a good story and good writing. :)

[michaelsnyder]

I think (but have no proof obviously) that the 'luck' part is simply putting yourself in the best possible situation to capitalize on opportunities.

Not sure if I can draw this mental picture here, but I'll try. Just stick with it, cuz I really think it has merit.

As soon as I got 'serious' about writing, I had this image of an enormous circle. The inside of the circle included anyone who'd ever tried to write. The outside of the circle were people with no interest in writing whatsoever. With me so far?

But the idea occurred to me that if I started taking steps to get better and thus, improve my chances ('luck', if you like that word)...then every single action I took in a positive direction made the circle smaller.

Think about it...or better yet, draw a circle on a regular piece of typing piece of paper so you can visualize how drastic the results are. Say your circle is all the way to the edges, so that the entire inside of the circle is the tens of thousands of writers out there. If you read one book on the craft of writing, you get to draw YOUR circle slightly inside the edges of your original circle. No big deal yet, right? But lets say you read a dozen books on writing...your circle is getting small now.

Let's say you go to a couple of conferences...in my estimation, you get to move your circle a good distance inside the others.

Now let's say you actually finish a novel...I say YOUR circle on the page should only be about 3" in diameter now. Just look at all the 'competition' (for lack of a better word) you've eliminated...or if you prefer...how much 'luck' you're creating.

By the time you edit your finished novel, sign with an agent, and get yourself on a first-name basis with a half-dozen editors, YOUR circle is approaching pinpoint status.

Does that mean you'll get a contract? No way. Your 'tiny' circle that you worked really hard to get to is still filled with hard-working, smart, talented people. Everyone there worked at least as hard as you did and is every bit as deserving as you. It's still a subjective business. More importantly, it's still in God's hands.

But I sincerely believe this image stands up. It's way better than seeing your success as rungs on a ladder...all that climbing is just too tiring...and what if you're afraid of heights! I think it's way more fun to think of this process like a Blow Pop or Tootsie Pop...you keep licking away at it, then are rewarded with either some gum or a Tootsie Roll! And occasionally some fortunate soul gets to do the Freshen Up Gum approach...he/she just bites right to the center for a fresh squirt of Bestsellerdom!

Mike

[Gravity]

GREAT analogy, Mike!

[Zanzibar]

LOL Mike. I love the way you think. And I agree with you. One day when I get to be famous :p I'll let you all know how it's done. LOL.

Timber,

Here's the link for NCWA - http://www.nwchristianwriters.org. They meet again on the first Monday in September. They also have critique groups that meet - I think there are 3 of them going now - so if you would like to be tied into a critique group let me know and I will send you the critique group coordinator's email addy.

Curmudgeon, A fellow NW AG pastor! Very neat. (Well, not me...:) but my husband) You are on Vashon Island?

Mr. Peretti's book about his youth and all the hard things he went through was very touching to me. It really made me realize what a wonderful man he must be to have gone through all that and come out the other side serving God! And I could totally relate to his book (I think it was the Visitation) where he talked about christian college life - the character got into trouble for playing the backside of a donkey (in a costume) because a girl was the front end! I laughed out loud many times because it was so totally accurate!

[David Meigs]

...Curmudgeon, A fellow NW AG pastor! Very neat. (Well, not me...:) but my husband) You are on Vashon Island?

Mr. Peretti's book about his youth and all the hard things he went through was very touching to me. It really made me realize what a wonderful man he must be to have gone through all that and come out the other side serving God!...lol - I was ordained in another denomination, and this is the first AG church I've ever worked for, but I found Jesus at an AG church and when I wasn't youth pastoring somewhere, I always make an AG church my home. :)

[Timber Wolf]

LOL Mike. I love the way you think. And I agree with you. One day when I get to be famous :p I'll let you all know how it's done. LOL.

Timber,

Here's the link for NCWA - http://www.nwchristianwriters.org/. They meet again on the first Monday in September. They also have critique groups that meet - I think there are 3 of them going now - so if you would like to be tied into a critique group let me know and I will send you the critique group coordinator's email addy.

....



Thanks for the link. Don't recognize the site. Don't know how I could have missed it. Back in SEP I got hooked up w/ the library writing group, then they took a break (<SIGH!> Which they're doing again in two weeks for summer) for Christmas, and so I started looking up Christian Writing web sites, and "Ta da" found the Christian Writers forum. Glad you guys are here, cause all the local groups keep taking breaks.

In SEP look for someone who looks like Count Dracula.

OH, and did you go to the NW Christian Writer's Conference in May?


EDIT:

I have been here before - :)
Jeanetta Chrystie (http://www.clearglassview.com/)was an old teacher of mine when I worked at LWTC and took classes there - she also wrote for the Northwest Christian Journal. But it's been so long since I've been here I had totally forgotten about it.

And I didn't realize you guys meet at Northshore Baptist Church - so I didn't realize it musta been you that put on th econference I was ref to. :) Small world, as they say.

Sorry for hijacking the thread again - we were tallking about becoming successful, though, were we not? And connections is part of that journey, and connecting is something I've always had difficulty with.