Significance of the Cross

[waiter]

Hi,
There is talk about the issue of surrender of our will to God every day for his will, and what this kind of life is like versus a christian life where the concept of surrender to the leadership of Christ and to his will daily is not really understood nor consistently practiced. Some people truly do not understand this concept. In christian circles, as in any environment, we have the curse of nodding the head in mental approval to many many things which are not in effectively planted in the heart.I know now that I have nodded yes to many things as a believer which I had little to no concept of.

The issue of the cross is the most critical issue of the christian life I believe. And failure to understand or conversely the ability to have a true beginning understanding of it, results either in success or repetitive failure. When God spoke to me almost 8 months ago, he spoke to me about my will being given to him all the time in all issues. I never understood that God was calling me to attention at ALL times. I am still stunned that the degree God desires our participation and what we mistakenly give are often two very different things.
I did not know that when Paul said he sought to bring EVERY thought into captivity to Christ, he MEANT it. This is where the warfare is. Anyone entering into that level of commitment is entering into an all out stand for God against all things. Then I began to see other scriptures just like this, the same principle being brought out.

Jesus said in John's gospel: The prince of this world cometh and hath NO-THING in me. Nothing, not one thing could Satan get into him. Amazing life he lived, amazing achievement of obedience as man who also had to rely on the Holy Spirit at all times, and amazing surrender and sacrifice of his life while he lived, and then the incredible demonstration of the ultimate picture of a surrendered will in fighting the war of prayer in Gethsemane (where the real battle took place and was won by Christ before the actual death of the cross) and acquiescing to a willing death. Simply amazing.

Then I see where Paul says, Make NO PROVISION for the flesh. Wow. Let me immediately correct someone's possible thought process here. Perhaps you think this means perfection and no room for failure. I must be careful in how I say this: I believe the Lord wants us to shoot at perfection, but he is also gracious when we fall short. He is not merciless or cold toward the situation we all find ourselves in as frail beings whom sin has mastered and destroyed. He knows can only grow through love and understanding. We are harder, because we wrongly understand, on ourselves than at times he is. We are dealing with a reasonable person here,not a cold heartless God. He only desires our best of what we have to give him. As we go along that way, he enlarges us and we open up more to him. It is a process. The mistaken view is that he demands perfection immediately.Well that kind of life is impossible and allows no room nor grace for our humanity or needing learn how to walk with him. Such a life is always bound up rather than being free to truly live.

I will stop here, to make this post shorter, and then post again to finish the thought and perhaps make it tolerable for others. I am rather hopeless at short posts. Bear with this fault in me please, thank you.

[waiter]

So then,whether it is nothing evil entering into Christ, or no provision for the flesh,and there are other similar texts in scripture, we see God's call to perfection or to a holy/surrendered life that is striving in the right way of obedience and not the flesh, to please God.

I came to realize that this kind of life is only begun properly when one first rightly begins to understand the cross for themselves. And very simply the cross is to me God simply saying, I love you, I forgive you, I receive you, I will work with you, be of good courage.
However, I truly believe the teaching of the cross in our churches and in books etc, has been too limited. The focus has been on initial salvation and the place of the cross, but not on the great need of the cross for the ongoing christian life. I believe the cross is at the very centre of an ongoing christian life and that without a right understanding of this, a christian will truly struggle and their life will either openly or inwardly reveal a cycle of sin, condemnation and never being able to rise up of the mat.

I was rather stunned when the Lord showed me that no matter the sin or the struggle at any point in my life as a believer, I had to bring it to him-the place of the cross where there is forgiveness, understanding, washing, healing- and there have it dealt with. I truly did not understand this. This is to be the ongoing basis and undergirding of a healthy human being, one who is healed, who is being healed, who is yet to be healed.
The cross is where the fountain of forgiveness is, and without it, the burdens grow and grow.

So the basis of a surrendered life is first the understanding, acceptance, and practice of receiving the forgiveness, washing, and healing of Christ thru the blood which opened up the way. One who believes in God's willingness to forgive him or her, must practice availing themselves of this at all necessary points and they will then be built up and changed by the the forgiveness and love of God thru Christ,and not thru futile self efforts to solve their sins and struggles. It is a dependency on God rather than ourselves. The mistaken view is that somehow I must do it. The pudding is in the practice of the type of life we believe in.

One must practice,that is in actuality receive God's forgiveness daily at any given point. This removes pride for then we see the truth of our sin and we see the truth of his love removing it every time and dealing with it every time. This kind of life naturally opens into a more and more obedient life. This is what Paul lived, and he did not have it down pat, as he frankly admitted, but he kept on pushing harder and harder. Once one begins to walk rightly this way in a right understanding and practice of the christian life, they begin to experience the life of God promised in the scriptures.

And then they are hooked. And once they are hooked, they become dangerous because they then know where the life is and how it can be accessed and they simply want more and more and are willing to give more and more as they walk with the Lord, willing to do anything to please him just so they can have the beauty of his presence in their own life. This is how they get to know him, by actually experiencing his reality in themselves in endless ways.

And all was made possible by the surrender of that one will in the garden by one who knew the reality of God in himself and who was willing to give anything to keep that life flowing through himself for his own sake and for the sake of a whole world. Isn't it amazing what he did and what is available to us?

[Xenia]

Wow! Really enjoyed that. This is something I am working on. It is definitely a battle! I struggle so with condemnation and as you said.. it keeps me on the mat a lot. I know it must be hurtful to Him that I do struggle with it and that makes me feel even worse! No denying it though and sometimes I wonder if it's not become a psychosis of some sort for me. How can I after sinning so (even when I knew better) just walk away scott free? I can hardly speak of it....

[waiter]

Hi Xenia,

I really have to think about how I want to answer you.

Please know this as something that is true: I am exactly like you if you were to look at my history over the years with God. Today I am no different than you except that a new understanding has got into me and made all the difference in my practice of the christian life, in my approach to God, and in my understanding of the cross. This has become a huge difference. You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. I had a wrong perception before of God, and of the significance or meaning of the cross.

Today the cross is everything for the cross is the mercy of God NOT JUST AT SALVATION......................................... ..

.................................................. ............but ALL THE WAY AFTERWARDS.

This is the key Xenia, you have every right to use the cross and the atonement in the blood right now and every day and all the time and I'll tell you what God has a huge desire in his heart that you do.Yes, he wants you to not sin, but only getting into his forgiveness and right standing with him thru forgiveness will enable you to deal with any issues that plague you as a believer. Believing in, reaching out for, and experiencing forgiveness thru the blood of the cross daily or whenever you need it will and must be the basis first before departing from any sin or making lasting change in your life. It cannot occur when you have sinned and are not able to come to him for forgiveness.

I know the feeling thing of condemnation. I'm telling you from many years of experience, I tried it and it didn't work. But the minute we begin practicing receiving forgiveness no matter how we feel a change begins if we continue such a practice.

Yes one may "feel" sheepish, but the more one understands that we have no way out of habitual things of our life except thru this forgiveness of the blood the more we dare to bring to the cross and soon we just say, Well Lord here it is, I throw it at the foot of the cross, I'm hooped unless you set me free from this thing and forgive me on the spot.

I don't mean we are disrespectful, only that we become bold in coming to the throne of grace, to find mercy and grace to help in time of need. It is a throne of grace, and the fact that mercy is found there speaks of something undeserved. Grace in the Greek,the word charis, means above all this in Strong's:" Divine influence upon the heart and it's reflection in the life."

I cannot think of a more beautiful hope giving word in the scripture Xenia. Mercy is undeserved and we have a right to it thru the blood/death of another; grace is the Spirit or life of God touching us inside, bringing change on the outside. Amazing. We must take our seat at the foot of the cross and there unashamedly grow, for there is the only place of growth or change. Our natural thinking keeps us from the cross as it kept Adam from God. We must be UNLIKE him and run to God, to the cross, to forgiveness, to mercy, to grace........UNASHAMEDLY.



We must resist every "contrary" feeling in order to do this initially. If we stay away from Christ and the cross, we are left with unforgiven sin and we are going to go into more sin because hardness of heart develops, hopelessness and defeat, and soon the heart needs a soother and away we go into something, some sin to soothe the aching heart that is crying out for God. What I did when I first began to come to this understanding is what i just said, resist every lack of feeling holy or the presence of God and began daily to seek him in the word of God and in prayer, and man does this alone make a difference when done consistently as a life commitment. Plus, I determined i would seek to be obedient in the obvious things which came to my conscience during the day.This took an incredible amount of effort at first for I had lived a whole long life caving in to feelings. And the Lord showed me clearly that was my problem.

I had relied heavily on feelings rather than using my will no matter how I felt. And i have to tell you Xenia, I worked very very hard at first, but something was truly driving or compelling inside. I had come to a corner in my life where I felt cornered and I was so ashamed of my life after all these years as a christian. It was life of repetitive or cyclical failure and sin. As I gave my all in my effort in my mind, my spirit, my body, not perfection just a sweat and tears effort to prove to myself I meant it and to God, something began to change profoundly inside. I began to see God so differently. I began to see he gives himself to those who give themselves to him. But that had been my problem, I wanted, so I thought, give myself to him, but never really could.

You or I cannot depend on our feelings even when we sin, or else we are bound. Satan has us in a snare then. To stay away a minute longer than necessary is dangerous for that method leads only to more sin and Satan knows this. But the cross and the blood of Christ is our escape, and as we TAKE/ACCEPT his forgiveness, we experience the love of a Father and a Saviour who truly loves us and wants us to be free. We must take that forgiveness for it is the only lifeline there is. No other exists. It may seem hypocritical to go for forgiveness quickly, but there is no other way. We MUST go. In the going, in receiving, we start to change and the changing factor is the love of God thru the forgiveness that is in Christ and the blood.

If I could walk with you and take your hand and be with you every time you fell into sin, I would drag you to the cross, to the blood, to Jesus, and put you there to look at one who loves you very very much and knows who you are deep inside and how you are made and knows the deep cry of your heart. I can't do that. But Jesus is truly the one who wants to take you like that by the hand, in fact I am sure is trying to all the time, and literally rush you to "emergency" for treatment every time: the CROSS and the forgiving blood of his death. He truly is like that in nature, and it is that love Xenia that will overcome all your sins and will change you toward all that he has called you.I truly truly believe that.

Rev. 12:11 And they overcame him-Satan, and all his accusations-by the blood of the lamb..........

Once we overcome our own sheepishness, our own guilt and feelings, and begin to use the cross as our weapon and our shield, we then learn also to combat condemnaton from Satan as well, for he is mixed very finely into the sin process and attaches himself into it in order to give added potency to the condemnation we feel from just sinning. So the condemnation you are feeling is not just sinning, Satan has brought himself into it just as he was heavily involved in the garden at the fall. He is always wrapped up in this process. The blood breaks the hold of sin and of satan and of condemnation and we have been given right to make full use of it. Does this make sense inside of you Xenia? Does it sound like there is a hope and a way for you in this?

[waiter]

Xenia,
It is a theological point, but it truly is a very important point to make and to clearly distinguish, being this:

SALVATION IS NOT JUST THE ENTRANCE INTO AN UNDERSTANDING OF CHRIST'S DEATH, RESURRECTION, AND PRESENT LIFE THRU THE HOLY SPIRIT IN US. IT IS THE WHOLE PROCESS FROM BEGINNING TO END OF BELIEVING ON JESUS AND RELYING ON HIM.

This may to some seem to make a big deal out unnecessary point, but that is not the case, and it is another lack of understanding of what scripture means when it uses the word salvation. In many circles salvation has been designated only to signify the entrance into faith in Christ and God. However, it is the whole kit and caboodle of one's believing life until they go to be with the Lord. We need salvation all the way, every step of the way, and that salvation is thru the blood and it's forgiving, covering, atoning, cleansing nature. The death of Christ allows for a salvation "to the uttermost". This mention of uttermost is found in the KJV in the book of Hebrews. He is able to save to the uttermost those who come to him via the cross. The blood is able, which means all manner of sin is forgiveable, except a blatant refusal of the grace of God to a point of no return, something only God can measure. God has anticipated everyone of us, and the blood is sufficient. We must now use it though, avail ourselves of it, and not be ashamed in doing so. That is why it was shed, because of our great great need for God knew we would go to hell forever without it.

[Xenia]

Gosh! Thank you for the time and care you took to address my response. Your words are true and good. I need to leave my feelings out of it. I know that I am saved and that I am be-ing sanctified. I stumble every day and the Lord is faithful and just to forgive me. There are a couple whoppers in my Christian life though that although I know in my head I am forgiven I can't seem to get over... "they are ever before me". This hinders me. I feel I can't be all out. It makes me feel like a huge hypocrite (yuk) to go along like I'm a good Christian when I have made such huge mistakes. In my heart I am radical, I am committed, I'm a freak! But... these old sins, they wag their finger in my face and say no, no.. not you!
I better shut up or you will think I have mental problems! I appreciate what you have said very very much and I am going to read over it again. I have prayed and prayed and prayed about all this... this self condemnation has got to stop somewhere! Through your post and some other things like being more committed to my devotional time and really really trying to actually live my life as a relationship with Jesus instead of just a religion I am beginning to hope that I will be free of this stronghold.
Very personal conversation here ... perhaps it will help others too.
Thank you Waiter :).

[waiter]

Xenia,
You are perfectly normal and your struggle in this area is common, not uncommon. That should give you great hope. I am absolutely convinced that we take the forgiveness available thru the cross and blood by act of will over any feeling or lack thereof. It is the only way every time. Re: the conversation being personal, rest assured I have walked in my share of sin and condemnation and am still just working out my salvation as you and everyone else. I have seen my nature often enough to know I am cut from the cloth of sin which pervaded my whole being before Christ. Now i have Christ, and that fountain of blood is always flowing, always available.
In the last year I got a revelation from the Lord about the parable where Jesus said he who is forgiven much loves much. Do you remember the parable? One owed much, the other owed less.

I realized that it wasn't that one sinful person is worse than the other. Both are sinners, both are lost. And here is where my understanding from the Lord gave me a brand new understanding. Both were the same, for both are lost, both are dead in sins, both are separated from God. But it is the one who chooses to receive forgiveness who is forgiven more and this one ends up loving more than the one who is not forgiven.That is the difference between saved and unsaved. But then use that same principle when comparing christian to christian. One christian walks in joy, the next christian walks in darkness and misery.

Why?

Because one is worse than the other? Well on face value, one might look worse than the other if their lives were examined. One would be struggling with this sin, that sin, etc., while the other one, not perfect, would be exhibiting a lot of growth, a lot of branching toward the Lord in positive ways.

But really both are the same at the foundation of who they are in themselves.They are both two sinful people when set by themselves and examined apart from and outside of Christ. But what makes one different than the other will always be an understanding of God's forgiveness and a walking and partaking/receiving of that forgiveness. And that person will be one who demonstrates greater love because the forgiveness/love of God will set them free from guilt and from the clinging of patterns of sin. Reception of forgiveness may seem presumptious but it is the only lifeline and no other exists. At some point, some earlier, some later, everyone must come to that conclusion, and once they do, they reach out hungrily and unashamedly for it and then begins healing and transformation by the Spirit of God in them. All is based on mercy/love. Proper acceptance of this mercy makes people whole from the destructive effect of sin and sin loses it's hold in all the areas it rules in in us. This is sanctification or being set apart from sin and set apart unto the Lord only. God thru this process separates us from our sin and washes us, and it really is magical if I can use that word.

Jesus said to Peter, If I wash you not you can have no part with me. Our guilt and logic recoils at being washed, but Jesus said that is the only way we can have a part in him. The mistake made though is often only limiting this washing to the initial entrance into faith in Christ. Washing is ongoing though, and the need for it is ongoing, for
1 Corinthians 1:18 states in the Greek that WE ARE BEING SAVED. It is a process. We need the washing every time an issue like you are talking about arises or persists.

Trust me, I am in no way a whit better or more advanced than you. I would venture to say that if my sins were laid on the table throughout my history, there is a very good chance I have done far worse things than you.I'm dead serious. I have simply had my understanding adjusted and shifted. Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.I believe this has made a difference inside that is monumental. My life, my growth, is hooped and will not advance one degree without the mercy and grace available right this moment thru the blood of the cross.

Rev. 12:11 says this: And they overcame him-Satan-through the blood of the Lamb.

The great overcoming factor against sin and Satan is the blood shed on the cross. Great saints are not better people, they are simply people who have been enabled to throw off shame and self consciousness and run to the cross as an ongoing refuge. Some of them, us, are the worst of people.
Hey, you are welcome. And I am happy to talk with you anytime on this. I love talking about this because it has deeply affected my soul and I have been GREATLY helped by the Lord in this area.
I think you hit it on the head Xenia: Relationship and not religion. A living person will have compassion on us. A set of rules will be unbending and we will never measure up. Jesus loves you and me and this love was demonstrated by him taking all the sin, all the blame on himself. I must now receive that forgiveness as needed. That acceptance of forgiveness is more honouring than the refusal of it.Our problem is we think the refusal of forgiveness is more honouring and so stay away from the cross and the blood. We are wrong. He is right.

Bless you greatly, I KNOW God loves you

[Xenia]

Thank you Waiter. Your words in this thread and others have been in due season for me. What a blessing!

One christian walks in joy, the next christian walks in darkness and misery.This is so true. Satan wants to steal our joy. Many years ago during a church service a woman I didn't know came up to me and said "the Lord wants me to tell you that the joy of the Lord shall be your strength". She presented this scripture verse to me as a personal word. Now I don't know about such things whether she was operating out of the spirit or not but this has stuck with me for many years and I've studied it quite a bit. Joy is so important in our walk and feelings of condemnation are definitely a joy killer... just what the devil wants!

Our problem is we think the refusal of forgiveness is more honouring and so stay away from the cross and the blood. We are wrong. He is right.

You know... this statement is very illuminating to me. As I think about my life I see that I have a pride issue. I think it must be very proud of me to think (and this is how I think sometimes)..."how could I have done this wrong thing? Meeee?!" The Father forgave it a long time ago. I am the one who can't get over being so wretched. I am the one who can't get over KNOWING that their was/is wickedness in my heart that I would never have dreamed was there. I am in shock over myself! The Word says though that the heart is wicked... who can know it!

I am absolutely convinced that we take the forgiveness available thru the cross and blood by act of will over any feeling or lack thereof. It is the only way every time.I receive it! I am going to practice it!!!

Jesus said to Peter, If I wash you not you can have no part with me. Our guilt and logic recoils at being washed, but Jesus said that is the only way we can have a part in him. The mistake made though is often only limiting this washing to the initial entrance into faith in Christ. Washing is ongoing though, and the need for it is ongoingIt certainly is! I am so thankful that our God is good!!

[waiter]

Hi Xenia,
I agree, pride is the issue. I drag myself to the cross when I have to and don't feel anything. But it works, and after I get there and spend time before the Lord, my feelings return and the presence of God filters into me and things seem different.
Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. If we think of the kindest best person we can that we know who really has a heart for people no matter what they have done or who they are, and there are some incredible people out there who truly do have a heart of understanding for others like that....I simply transfer that to God and believe if a human being can be that way, how much more God who knows us to the core and knows our struggle with our internal issues?

I believe that word about the joy of the Lord being your strength was a word from the Lord to you. It seems to have stuck with you, and when something sticks, I receive it as from the Lord, especially something like that which contains no evil but only good.

Thank you also for sharing and discussing Xenia. I appreciate your input and it seems clear to me you have a real desire to love and know God and I believe that is what really counts above all our sins or issues we think we may have. Years ago I went to a small church, and this pastor was so kind to me, so understanding, so willing to talk with me, pray for me, take my calls when i called at odd times. This person used to say to me that they perceived only good in me, but I would say, But you don't know the whole story, because I have lots of sin.

Years later, I understand. The person sees only their sins they struggle with, but people like this pastor, and God himself, sees our heart and what the desire in the heart is toward. I have always wanted to serve God but struggled much along the way. But in my heart I desired God. In the midst of all the wrong and all the messed up stuff, there was something planted in the heart by God that was real and that God in mercy has protected. You are the same, God has planted something in your heart and it is real and true. Be patient, be a true disciple and give of your self to him, and he will bless you. Think of all that so many christians in the bible had to go thru and how much wrongness and sin was in so many of them and you will find God still made something of them and their lives and they became our examples. I believe the greatest issue is not our personal sin, but how much of God's forgiveness we are willing to receive. Sin was the issue before Christ, but now that he has died, the big issue is how much of his washing will he receive...or not receive? It is the difference maker. But I stop! I talk too much.
God bless you Xenia, have a great day

[Xenia]

You don't talk to much!!! I have enjoyed our conversation very much.

You are the same, God has planted something in your heart and it is real and true. Be patient, be a true disciple and give of your self to him, and he will bless you.

I know this is true. Since I was very small child I have been aware of that "planting" in my heart that you refer to. And since then I have always had a real sense of destiny. I know that I have a calling of some sort... Like you, God has through it all protected that initial seed.

You have helped me... Thank you brother! (you are a brother aren't you? I really don't know for sure... if you are a sister then thank you sister!)

God bless you.

[waiter]

Hi,
I'm a brother. God bless and so glad about your being helped.Am myself encouraged.
All the very best and highest in Jesus