Abiding In Christ Concept and Psalm 91

[waiter]

Hi,
Couldn't find a thread I participated in briefly with LynnMosher and Xenia recently, which I found very valuable, so thought I might punch in this which is greatly on my mind.

This has very much come up in the last week in the circles I run in or observe. Am not unfamiliar with these things either, having been around the christian scene for nearing almost 3 decades. However, God can take us deeper, and there is always a deeper to his truth. Especially this one, since i think it to be the cornerstone of success in a believer's life. I mean success in the sense of a life with God that is real, that works, and that has real fruit, real light, real progress, real joy. I could go on, but these though they can be and do become cliches in christian realm, ought not to be, and if they are, are then evidence of something gone wrong in the process between a believer and the Lord.

An assistant pastor speaks of evangelism, mentions concern for his neighbors, that he really does not know them. He expresses the feeling ande need to reach out, evangelize. Brings it up to me personally. He brings it up in a sunday school class, about basically evangelizing. But what I'm not really hearing from him is what I personally need more than ever to hear in order to give my amen to ideas and thoughts about reaching out to evangelize. I hear about the people being needy, being lost, the believers also sensing the need to do so.

But my thought is, hey, I've been here before. The same place. What was missing then to my understanding was the process that needs to be in place in order for us to effectively minister. The same thing I sense missing in this since there is little to no talk about it: Jesus said, Without me ye can do nothing. If we are going to do anything, as with Moses, we need him to be present with us in a real way that is tangible to us if to no one else. Just because there is the call of the gospel to preach to the lost does not mean we have any ability to heed the call without real power. We cannot just minister because the bible says so. We need real power within ourselves, a genuine leading and sense of God directing the affair.

I have done the guilt thing as a believer, and now refuse to be guilted. I have beaten myself up for years for my unwillingness and inability to minister to the lost or to even truly care about them. Now I understand why. The Lord wants me to have a relationship with him first and foremost, and I can only do what he directs me and enables to me to do out of that relationship. That is not a cop out. That is a fact. Just because anyone can abuse that does not mean it is not a real principle which must always precede being a witness. I am to be a witness out of my relationship with him, and not be a witness in order to get that relationship. That is a mistaken understanding of the scripture and of the gospel. And it is the reason for failure and a lack of authentic ministry to people.

How important is this? Well, in our sunday school class one man had the courage to be honest enough to express that he was concerned about his walk with the Lord, and that he realized that he did not really care about the lost. Here he is in our midst saying this. Wow. My strong feeling is that this man needs in the light of his confession to be encouraged biblically and accurately in order to steer him in the right direction, and not into a works mentality admonition that ends in frustration and some people depart from the Lord because of it.They feel trapped and don't see a way out of the corner they find themselves in: they are christians, they see the demand of the scripture for a new testament christian, but see no way of meeting these demands.

Abiding in a relationship with Christ as a full time not just some of the time or part time thing is the answer. Our obligation is to minister to the Lord and get to know him, and then he will give us the freedom to begin to minister to others. That is the order of how it works properly. I am so disappointed when I hear people being told to just get out there, but are not instructed in what must undergird getting out there: a vital, active, alive relationship with the Lord where we know we are accepted by him because of the blood of the cross and that we can and must continue taking all things, all our troubles and sins to the cross for working out, and out of that place, we are made whole and enabled bit by bit, chunk by chunk, to become witnesses to others of the same life and healing by which we are made whole. I can only minister the degree of life that I have encountered. And if I am not nurturing the most important thing, my relationship with him, and am letting that die by inattention, I have nothing to minister to others but a dead gospel that has no conviction in it. All I have then is hollow words. That is why most people cannot minister to others.They are suffering inside in their relationship with God thru sin or thru lack of understanding, and have nothing to give.

I love Psalm 91. It talks about making God our habitation. Not just a place to visit once in a while, but taking up permanent conscious residency in living our life constantly to him and before him, addressing all things to him, involving him in my thoughts, my words, my decisions, letting him be a part of everything I do and am. This takes no small amount of work, but it is the place of life and newness where God reveals himself to us. I did not realize previously just how literally the Lord meant it when he says thou shalt love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, all your strenght, all your soul. He meant it literally. No one does it perfectly, even Paul admitted that. But we have not been taught enough the literalness of this admonition, nor the blessing,the incredible flow of life there is as we begin to pick up this cross and be disciples rather than non commitals who are wandering and wondering. The Lord withholds himself from those who won't commit themselves.But he is happy to give himself wholly to anyone who opens up their heart honestly to him. He looks for honesty, not perfection. No one is perfect. I never understood that. I believe it now, and it has relieved such a burden about the whole matter. My life has gone from a guilt ridden christian who withdrew more and more over the years into a shell and into a dangerous place to a place where i am excited about the Lord, and about the possibilities the Lord can and does open up. Other than getting saved, this is the biggest shift in my life and it came by a revelation of what was wrong.The Lord told me I was not doing my part. He said I was not fighting the good fight, but expecting the reward. I began to take that literally and began to with my whole being to turn to the Lord as a commitment to be a disciple and an amazing turn around in perception, emotion, began to occur, which then affected my behaviour. I felt different, understand different, therefore began to act differently. Not so much looking to be noticed by others for the change, but desiring something that truly felt real and ministered to my soul in a real, not fake way. I needed ministry in my sick soul. I was so unhappy, so depressed, so worried about where I was headed. I was like that man in the sunday school. I was scared. This is my heart now, to minister the same things to other believers in that dark dark place of hopelessness, to let them know if they truly have a seed of genuine desire in their heart for God, that he knows that and wants to minister to them.

I know this is a long post. However, this is to me the most critical point in all of life. I feel God wants room in all our lives, and for much of my christian life, i was not willing to give him that room or time. That was so wrong, and I was not aware of what I was doing then. A lot of time was wasted. Would be happy to hear what you have to say. I am very busy, so do not get around here much, but hope some of you can have a great conversation amongst yourselves about this anyway. Bless you

[Lookin^Up]

I remember shopping for groceries one time, and a girl marched up to me and said something like, "Have you accepted Jesus as Savior," right out of the blue. That's not witnessing, that's ambushing.

A witness is something people can see in your life that's different from theirs, something that they want. We speak to witness about how God has changed our lives and can do the same for them. It often helps if there's a relationship with the witnessee to begin with--though witnessing to unbelieving family tends to be harder. But real witness has to do with a life dedicated to serving God, first and foremost.

I'm not sure how Psalm 91 works into this. As I read it, it speaks more of God's protection for us in dangerous situations (such as war or some other life-threatening circumstance) than about our witness to the lost, as well as our trust in Him when danger lurks around the corner.

[lynnmosher]

I can only minister the degree of life that I have encountered. And if I am not nurturing the most important thing, my relationship with him, and am letting that die by inattention, I have nothing to minister to others but a dead gospel that has no conviction in it. All I have then is hollow words. That is why most people cannot minister to others.They are suffering inside in their relationship with God thru sin or thru lack of understanding, and have nothing to give.

A witness is something people can see in your life that's different from theirs, something that they want. We speak to witness about how God has changed our lives and can do the same for them.

Wow! Waiter, what a mouthful, er, postful! That was awesome! What you both said is so true. If we don't live our lives in such a way as to make others desire to have what we have, what is the point of being a Christian? It isn't just for personal salvation; it is for others also. Is it our hearts’ desire for those that God loves to receive salvation? Or would we rather they be Homeless for eternity?

Sometimes, our lives preach the loudest when we remain speechless, just by living that quiet, yet obvious, life according to the Word. St. Francis of Assisi said it best, “Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary.” For some, we are the only Bible they will read. We are walking advertisements, publicizing the gospel, but what does our ad promote?

If we do not concentrate on our relationship with the Lord, then we cannot give out of what we do not first have!

[waiter]

Lookin Up,

Psalm 91 works into it this way as I have come to understand it. Verse 9 says BECAUSE one has made the Lord their habitation THEN the protection is truly claimed without doubt on our part. John 14:21 says that he that keeps Jesus commandments is the one that loves him and Christ manifests himself to such as keep his bidding and do what he says. Both these texts suggest the role of our will and our choice in saying yes to God. There is in christian circles the idea that being a believer is an automatic process which requires no involvement, and then there is a great wondering where is God? I must open my heart willingly to God, even when it hurts. This is not legalism. We don't do it to get saved. We do it because it is the process wherein we find the manifestation of the life of Christ, the power of the Holy Spirit. But it does not come without obedience.

Psalm 91's protections is predicated, based, on first making the Lord our Lord fully out of a willing heart that wants to be around him all the time not just at certain moments or set times.He died to restore us to the former condition which was full communion, unbroken with him. In heaven it will be full standing in the complete presence of God. Right now we are preparing for that by the gradual opening and enlarging of our hearts to allow him greater and greater access. It is a process, but a wonderful process. But if a person does not like spending all their time looking unto the Lord, how will they bear it heaven? So we are literally getting ourselves ready to the best of our ability, for that full unhindered experience of his full glory.

There is a BECAUSE in verse 9 of Psalm 91.Because you have made the Lord your habitation there shall no evil befall thee. BECAUSE you have made the Lord your habitation he will give his angels charge over you. BECAUSE you have made the Lord your habitation you shall tread upon the lion and the adder. BECAUSE you have made the Lord your habitation, and have set or fixed permanently your love upon him as your sole and great love in life, therefore he will deliver you. BECAUSE you have made the Lord your habitation he will set you on high. BECAUSE you have made him your habitation and have KNOWN his name(known him thru cultivation of personal relationship with him and have been willing to walk in obedience with him out of a willing open heart) he will answer you in your praying. BECAUSE you have made the Lord your habitation he will be with you in trouble, will deliver you, will honour you, will satisfy you with long life and will shew you the full extent of his salvation in all it's aspects in this life and in the one to come.

The whole thing is predicated or based on the BECAUSE. This then involves active choice and participation, and thus subjection to his lordship and to not walk around doing as I please. Which is no different than abiding in Christ, the word abiding being simply to remain, to dwell. We could go on and on. I never in all my years saw this properly and thus suffered much barrenness as a christian for many years.

I know now that there are many likeminded likeliving believers who have not realized this either, and expect something to just drop out of the sky and are still waiting years and years later. Why? Because they have a mistaken understanding of how the process works and what God has called us to. We do not join companies or any group non committally and under our own terms. But in christianity many of us have mistakenly thought we could do as we please and yet have our cake. We thought we could get saved and then pick and choose and that yes, in crunch times we could reach out for the promises for safety but find them not easy to lay a hold of.Well, to show up at home once a year, or once in a blue moon is the lifestyle of a prodigal and not a true commitant to the Lordship and person of Christ.

Not that this is some terrible thing, this thing of commitment. It is the way of freedom and of knowing God in depth, and of service for then we find God springing up a desire in our hearts to bear witness of his goodness and reality in our life and then witnessing become a natural tendency and inclination, rather than guilted thing we do because it's out "duty".

That is the wrong basis. We are to do nothing by compulsion or with our arm seemingly tied behind our back. So it is better for me to learn the proper basis of a life that is given to service rather than the wrong basis. The right basis is a life first with Christ and me alone in the world and where I am ministered to and healed inside, then I can minister. I must first know his love and care for me before I can share it properly with others. I must believe God cares about me just for me, and not just to make an able minister. No one likes to be just a project. God does not want us to just use him so we can become ministers but do not know how to just enjoy being with him like being with any person we like. And he does not want to use us in the same manner, not truly caring about us as people, but just supposedly wanting to sling us out as ministers. There is something impersonal about that whole thing. What happened to just liking me to talk to me and be around me out of a genuiine and pure desire and nothing more? Well I know now God is like that, he is pure and genuine.


It works from the inside to the outside. The other method, the wrong one, works from the outside to the center. We try to get to Christ thru witnessing and all sorts of acts and penances in order to be acceptable so we can get into his acceptance or his presence. And what we are mistakenly doing is trying to be our own saviours and not relying as children in faith on the salvation of Christ thru the cross. We are refusing his acceptance and forgiveness of ourselves. And this wrongly based christianity always produces distorted results and the one using it never feels at ease or in a place of peace with the Lord. I have decided this is not true or biblical christianity since I don't see it in the bible. I see God actually cares about me and wants me to be well. I never knew that before. It is out of this security of God that we are most effective and convincing ministers, not out of the forced inauthentic method which we ourselves are not convinced of and the world can smell it like a dog can smell something a mile away.
Anyway, I hope not to post so long anymore.

Hi Lynn, I think you've got it on the money!

[lynnmosher]

I was a pew-sistter for years for before I responded to the Holy Spirit's wooing. I did all those things "good Christians" do...teach Sunday School, sing in the choir, help out in the nursery, volunteer for committees, etc., etc. The Spirit showed me I was doing nothing for the Kingdom, nothing of eternal value. I finally relinguished all my will to the will of the Father. Sometimes I fail but it's the overall attitude of wanting to please the Lord and be obedient to His slightest whisper. If I do not experience all the Lord has for me and others do not see Him working in my life, how can others know what He can do for them?

[waiter]

Lynn,
I love hearing about the relinquishing of your will to the will of the Father. It is what kick started a total shift of direction and understanding for me. I also love to hear you talk about being obedient to the slightest whisper.We are like horses who over time respond to the slightest tug on the reins. And yes, I absolutely agree, we stumble here and there, but the key is the overall attitude. I don't think anyone learns anything in one fell swoop.There is a process of trial and error and learning with experience and time. For me it takes all the perfectionism out of it which is a huge burden. It allows God to be gracious to us, and eases the whole thing so that it really is exciting to be a christian and of course feeling like we want to share or do something for the Lord. it becomes a willing thing then that comes out naturally.

I'm still in shock that I was a christian for 26 and 1/2 years before I understood how simple this is. Guess I just wasn't ready or willing, because I see it pasted all over scripture now.

[lynnmosher]

When transformed by the Holy Spirit and self is crucified, following this scripture, “Don’t copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect His will really is,” (Rom. 12:2 NLT) then we know this scripture personally, “You are truly My disciples if you keep obeying My teachings. And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31-32 NLT)

In other words, through obedience and transformation, the truth sets us free!

[waiter]

I just went to a Far East Broadcasting presentation for their shortwave ministry of the gospel, especially in the 10-40 window, which I understand is some of the least reached peoples of the world. We heard an incredible testimony by a man from Laos, and it truly is humbling to hear the testimony of God's working. These people are so hungry for God. When individuals get saved they go back and lead not one or two to the Lord but groups and whole villages in a space of a few short hours.

There was a time when these nations and groups of people needed missionaries(and still do), and the western and "civilized" nations sent such missionaries. Over time a transformation has occurred. Yes these places still need missionaries and there are many unreached, but now it has become increasingly clear over time that the hardest hearts to reach are the cocooned western and "civilized" nations. Many of the christians in such nations are casual in nature and the dedication to God of these other folks in the persecuted and impoverished areas puts to shame much of our devotion. I was humbled walking out of meeting, realizing how little I personally have given of myself after hearing such selfless testimony.

[Xenia]

We cannot just minister because the bible says so. We need real power within ourselves, a genuine leading and sense of God directing the affair.

So true! I don't want to feel like I am mustering up power on my own because I have a mandate. For one.. I can't sustain it. Two... I then feel guilty! Three.. if I do manage to be effective at all it's a temptation to feel proud of it (yikes).

I am to be a witness out of my relationship with him, and not be a witness in order to get that relationship. That is a mistaken understanding of the scripture and of the gospel. And it is the reason for failure and a lack of authentic ministry to people.

This is big... need to let this sink in!

They feel trapped and don't see a way out of the corner they find themselves in: they are christians, they see the demand of the scripture for a new testament christian, but see no way of meeting these demands.

True and it's very exhausting to try and meet those demands on our own steam! It steals our joy... and the joy of the Lord is our strength!

Abiding in a relationship with Christ as a full time not just some of the time or part time thing is the answer. Our obligation is to minister to the Lord and get to know him, and then he will give us the freedom to begin to minister to others. That is the order of how it works properly.

Once when I was crying out to the Lord because I felt so separated from Him that I thought I would rather die than to be in such a hell (I couldn't forgive myself for some sins) He gave me this verse:

John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

What a relief those words were to me! It is so easy to find ourselves NOT abiding sometimes. It's like being at the lake and going for a float on my little blow up raft... I am face down floating floating... then I look up after a time and I am alarmed at how quickly I got so far from shore! I got too comfortable! As you say.. it is a daily taking up of our cross. We must be diligent... chunk by chunk (i like that)!

Thanks for posting Waiter. Good stuff. Vital!

[lynnmosher]

Waiter, that is so cool!

In reading one of my devotionals this morning, this portion, which has always struck me as pertinent enough to try to live by for many years, seemed so appropriate for this thread.

These are the words of the Lord spoken to two little English ladies, who merely called themselves "listeners," which they recorded in 1935, I think it was.

This passage follows about the grapes being the fruit of the Vine, the Parent-Plant, not the work of the branch...

"So, My children, union with Me is the one great overwhelming necessity. All else follows so naturally, and union with Me may be the result of just consciousness of My Presence. Be not too ready to speak to others. Never make yourselves do this.

"Pray always that the need may be apparent, if you are to do this, and the guidance very plain. My Spirit has been driven out by the words of men. Words, words, words. Many have called Me Lord, Lord, who have not done the things that I said."

If we are branches of the Vine, as spirit beings, then we should follow the leading of the Spirit rather than the flesh...in all things.

[waiter]

Xenia,
You're incredibly welcome! Incredible is probably my most frequent word these days.
I'lll tell you a secret.Well, almost tell you a secret. You mentioned a sin or sins you could not forgive yourself for. Right now, after all the great deliverance God has given me, I am dealing with an area of weakness-not sexual sin or some thing like that, just something that is a weakness in me and producing trouble for me that I want to fix but it's almost like a blind spot, an inability to know how to fix it if you know what I mean. It's like being addicted, which I think any longstanding sin is, and someone telling you to just say no. Well, they're right, but that's your problem, you are bound in this thing and it tells you what to do, not you it. This thing has popped up in the last 3 or so months as an incredible weakness in my life and it is so hard to deal with it. The Lord has told me to keep all the doors open to him all the time, so I now am doing it, but I feel like I have been put on a cross in this particular area and am on the chopping block. What I'm saying is I really don't know how to fix it, and until the Lord really shows me the way out, I am, in the midst of my new joy in Christ which is so real and true and I will not let go of, suffering because of this one thing which has grown like a huge giant in recent times. Again, it does not mean I don't believe anything I say here: I most definitely do. But, I truly need God's help in to show me the way out of this one, it is really paining my soul greatly right now. Can you believe a person can have true victory in most everything and yet be so full of grief in one other area at the same time?



That's the true story of me right now. You said: "I would rather die than to be in such a hell." That is me right now in this one thing, but the rest of my life, the biggest and best part, the walking with Christ as my friend and God is the best it's ever been. Thanks so very much for your comments!

Lynn,
Wow, I simply have to write down the words you are quoting. I am so ministered to hear someone else say such things in such a way. Let me tell you what happened last Wednesday. I go to a Mennonite church,not the old style but up with the times. Wednesday morning the assistant pastor phoned to ask me for coffee. Had coffee a few months ago, and was surprised at his call this time. We agreed for Thursday at 2:00 at Tim Horton's, the great Canadian place of gathering. That night I began to think of him, and as soon as I did, I started to get a word of knowledge for him. The Lord started talking to me and it was blessing me but I knew it was for him. This will make this post longer, but please let me put this out there. First, this is the sum pretty well of where I've come to, and the Lord was just wanting me to share it with this man, which I did. Here are the words the Lord gave me, I added my own sense of them in my message to the assistant pastor, but i wont post them here, just the short version of the initial words I got.

"Abiding in Christ is the key to all. Doing only what we are inspired by God to do. And when all we can do is hang on to him, then that is sufficient. In this type of life there is much suffering. Which is the price paid to maintain our focus on God. Having to give up anything (a jealous God-not jealous in the usual sense we think of; rather, jealous in that he desires our welfare and the very highest and best for us, and knows that it only comes thru him, and that anything coming in between will harm us ultimately; he is jealous in that sense, jealous for our welfare, very protective, rather than the sense we are usually accustomed to associating with that word) which interferes with that life (his life) in us. As we walk out this life we are made aware of what stands in the way, and if we would continue to have that life - God - touch us, flow in us, then we must be willing to to do whatever the Lord asks of us.The manifestation of his life, himself to us, is only granted in the keeping of his commandments, that is, doing what he asks. What he asks, what he speaks to us personally. John 14:21 He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me, and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father and I will love him and will manifest myself to him."

Now in light of what you posted, and what Xenia said about abiding, isn't it just too cool that the Holy Spirit confirms his word all the way around? Those words by those two ladies are just too good to me. I can hardly believe it.

Thank you very much for posting that.

[lynnmosher]

Waiter, You are truly welcome! And that is cool what you wrote! I love it when God pulls things together like that. If you ever want to get that devotional, it's called God Calling. Sometimes, you can even find it at the grocery store, if your store has a book department.

[grimsleygl]

....Can you believe a person can have true victory in most everything and yet be so full of grief in one other area at the same time?

Wow! Waiter, Lynn, Xenia, I have really enjoyed reading this thread even though I'm a late responder!

Each of you have spoken right to where I am at as well.
Waiter, concerning your statement above...I know what you mean that it is almost unbelievable that one can have found this true victory that the Lord longs to give each of us, but yet at the same time still feel bound by an area of our lives that we still have not yet been able to hand over to Him. It is amazing actually...and so frustrating. Yet, isn't it also just what we need to understand that we will always be in need of what "only" the Lord can give us? We are forever dependent upon His grace, His blood, His forgiveness...and never our own righteousness?

I love the saying, "the saving of a soul takes place in an instance, but the making of a saint is the work of a lifetime." It personally helps me see that with each sinful thing I am able to give over to the Lord, I find that the freedom of being able to let go takes me one more step towards being all that God created me to be. I also know that I'll never make it...not on this side of heaven...none of us will. Still...if we truly are in love with the Lord, and if He is our all in all, "we press onward to the goal set before us", right?

I struggle with certain areas of my life so much it seems, I get discouraged with myself, yet I know that the more deeply I fall in love with Him, the more of my own "self will" I want to hand over to Him. I also know that the Lord is patient and long suffering. He will not push us. He waits...giving us a wide birth in order to become all that we were meant to become...all that He created us to be. It is incredible to me that the Lord still loves me...that He could love a wretch such as me. At my very b est, I'm such a mess! Yet, He loves me still. He calls me to Him, long to spend alone time with me! Can you imagine that? All I can say is, "wow," and fall at His feet...more in love with Him than ever!

One more thing I would like to comment on is to share another quote. I'm sorry I don't remember at this point who said this one either, but in light of the fact that we cannot expect to share Christ with others if we ourselves have not spent regular, consistent, personal time with Jesus... it reminds me of the quote, "You cannot give what you have not first received." Another way of saying this might be, "You cannot lead where you have not first been."

Oh how important is that sweet communion time with the Lord. I love the song, "I Come to the Garden Alone." It has such deep meaning for a Christian who is in love with the Lover of their Soul...the very Creator of the universe!

[waiter]

Hi Grimsleygl,
Thank you very much for your input in this. I read through your post and how good it is to hear from you about your life with the Lord. Your words and your interest in this area of things is by itself alone an encouragement to me. It lets me know: O Lord, here is another one of your people, someone who loves you, who wants to better learn how to love you. In years past I have to confess the concept of the BODY of Christ never really twigged a lot on me. But now it seems to have become increasingly important and valued.I realize more than every how much I need the body of Christ, my brothers and sisters, and I cannot lie but say my heart does do a leap when i hear a brother or sister talk about the Lord in a genuine fashion and what their walk is with him. Thank you so much for talking about this fact:

" .....Isn't it also just what we need to understand that we will always be in need of what "only" the Lord can give us? "


Excellent. That ministers to me. The Lord delivers us in one thing, but we are always facing challenges and the need for deliverances big and small. We are always in the place of dependency. You are so right, for if we got it all done, we'd be sitting with our hands folded and complacency would set in. The old nature and inclination always tends to the flesh and not the spirit. Thank you very much for this simple but true reminder. I had not thought of it that way.

Finally, thank you so much for expressing your heart toward the Lord and it is a heart of love and all I can say is may you be blessed in all your efforts in seeking and walking with the Lord and may his fragrance in a real way touch others around you.
Love in Christ, Zoran