The Seven Laws of the Descendents of Noah.

[Xenia]

Wasn't sure where to post this... I just think Christians should know about it. I'm still pretty ignorant about it myself and wanted your thoughts...

I am learning about this and it's rather alarming (keep Rev. 20:4 in mind) http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.%2020:4&version=9;

The Seven Noahide laws are general commandments with many details. Transgressing any one of them is considered such a breach in the natural order that the offender incurs the death penalty. Apart from a few exceptions, the death sentence for a Ben Noach is Sayif, death by the sword / decapitation, the least painful of the four modes of execution of criminals (see the Rambam's Hilchos Melachim 9:14). (The four methods of capital punishment in Torah are: S’kilah - Stoning; S’rifah - Burning; Hereg - Decapitation; Henek - Strangulation.) The many formalities of procedure essential when the accused is an Israelite need not be observed in the case of the Noachite. The latter may be convicted on the testimony of one witness, even on that of relatives, but not on that of a woman. He need have had no warning from the witnesses; and a single judge may pass sentence on him (Sanhedrin 57a, b; Rambam, Hilchos Melakim 9:14). http://www.noahide.org/article.asp?Level=173&Parent=166

You will also notice under "photos and news" pictures of President Bush.

Here is an article about the new Sanhedrin establishing a council for Noahides:http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/90646

Our own congress has recognized these laws:http://www.noahide.org/article.asp?Level=458&Parent=88 and look here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Toward_a_New_World_Order and here, George Bush discusses the plan: http://www.noahide.org/article.asp?Level=456&Parent=88

It all seems pretty creepy to me...

[Ransom v. Unman]

Wasn't sure where to post this... I just think Christians should know about it. I'm still pretty ignorant about it myself and wanted your thoughts...

I am learning about this and it's rather alarming (keep Rev. 20:4 in mind) http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.%2020:4&version=9;

http://www.noahide.org/article.asp?Level=173&Parent=166

You will also notice under "photos and news" pictures of President Bush.

Here is an article about the new Sanhedrin establishing a council for Noahides:http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/90646

Our own congress has recognized these laws:http://www.noahide.org/article.asp?Level=458&Parent=88 and look here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Toward_a_New_World_Order and here, George Bush discusses the plan: http://www.noahide.org/article.asp?Level=456&Parent=88

It all seems pretty creepy to me...

Why do these seem creepy?

Have you ever read Acts 15?

[Xenia]

Well, this quote taken from here http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/90646

A third goal of the creation of the High Council and the Sanhedrin's efforts in regard to the Noahide community, is to "transform the Noahide movement from a religious phenomenon - a curiosity many have not heard of - into a powerful international movement that can successfully compete with, and with G-d's help bring about the fall of, any religious movement but the pure authentic faith that was given to humanity through Noach, the father of us all," said emissary Bar-Ron.

To that end, one of the primary functions of the council will be the creation and development of effective outreach materials for the world. Although Judaism does not require or encourage non-Jews to become Jewish, the observance of the Seven Laws of Noah is incumbent upon humanity and widespread observance is to be worked toward, even through active proselytization, something that is anathema to Judaism.

For Gentile believers in Jesus this would/could be the end of their heads.. literally. Like I said, I am still learning about this... Am I misunderstanding??

[Tamera]

I'm still not sure what the problem is. The Ten Commandments are used as a basis for laws in many gentile countries. That doesn't mean anyone's proposing that Old Testement punishments be inacted for breaking them.

[Ransom v. Unman]

Well, this quote taken from here http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/90646



For Gentile believers in Jesus this would/could be the end of their heads.. literally. Like I said, I am still learning about this... Am I misunderstanding??

Well, here's the thing...

Christianity hasn't always been "Christianity." In fact, I preferred it back before Christianity didn't exist, and those who believed that Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah were simply a Jewish sect.

Now, you'll see in Acts 15 four stipulations: do not murder, do not commit idolatry, do not commit sexual sin and do not eat bloody meat. Many scholars actually see this as a precursor to what would go into the Talmud as the seven Noachide laws. The stipulations put down in Acts 15 explain how a Gentile was supposed to become a part of the Jewish sect of the Nazarene without completely giving away their gentile nationality. It was a compromise of sorts between the "hardline" Jews who insisted on full conversion to Judaism (i.e. circumcision, taking up the law, dying to gentile heritage, etc.) and the disciples who were reaching out to gentiles. It's actually a form of the intra-Jewish debate going on between the schools of Hillel and Shimmai.

But in this I digress...

Basically, I don't think the Seven Noachide laws pose any sort of threat to Christians. We should not blaspheme, murder, commit idolatry, commit sexual immorality, steal, be cruel to animals, and we should establish courts of justice. To whit, the genesis of the Noachide commands is attested to within the New Testament. There's nothing in the Seven that remotely offends me, or challenges what I believe we should be doing to glorify God. I think, in fact, that if Christians actually paid attention to things like Acts 15, the Seven Noachide Laws, and our Jewish heritage, we'd be a lot better off.

Now, what does concern me, is the threat to try to enforce these beliefs through secular governmental instruments. I have never been a fan of the sword of Constantine, whether it's Christians trying to outlaw homosexuality or Jews trying to outlaw blood sausages.

*EDIT*

I also only see in perhaps the vaguest sense how this relates to Revelation 20:4. However, in light of how Christ will be the ultimate judge, this should perhaps also be a warning to those Christians who see the government as a tool to enforce their beliefs upon others, as well.

[Xenia]

That doesn't mean anyone's proposing that Old Testement punishments be inacted for breaking them.

See the quote in post 1.

Ransom, I think I may be in over my head with all this. I agree with you that these laws shouldn't pose a threat to Christians....certainly! Is it not proposing the death penalty for offenders though? It sounds barbaric to me... AND "one worldish" They want the WORLD to follow the LAW (good laws yes) as given by Noah but Jesus has come since then. Will they not see Christians as NOT following the "authentic faith" (this emcompasses more than a few laws). I can see how something like this could get out of hand. I must admit that I was counting on you jumping on this. I knew your view would enlighten mine :)

[Ransom v. Unman]

Well, it seems more that you're scared of the way they'd go about enforcing these laws, rather than the laws themselves, and I agree... Any religion grabbing ahold of governmental forces poses a major threat to civil liberty and religious intregrity; let it be Evangelical Christianity, Rabbinic Judaism, Zen Buddhism, Secular Humanism or Fundamentalist Islam.

To be honest, this is the first I've ever heard of violating one of the Seven bringing a capital punishment. For what I understood, these were what were required of any gentile seeking to align with the God of Israel. I am wondering where the death penalty stuff is coming from, and under what circumstances it's perscribed... The wording and quotations in the article are not altogether clear. Hmm...

[Xenia]

Exactly ;).