Secular vs. Christian

[Ransom v. Unman]

All right, since we can discuss this stuff here as it really isn't so related to writing (a big "Hi" to the CW.com peeps) let's open this horrible can of worms!

Should Christians listen to non-Christian music?


:D



Discuss...

[lynnmosher]

Hey, Ransom! To me and for me, I like many different kinds of music, especially instrumentals. However, when it comes to lyrics, if I hear someone singing words that clash with my spirit or God's Word, I turn it off. (This goes for movies and TV also.) I don't like listening to words that are derogatory, demeaning, depressing, cursing, racial, or whatever. I want to listen to music that is uplifting. Period.

[Keith Wallis]

I'm eclectic. I have a preference for folk music (a couple of decades ago I ran a folk club for a few years), folk-rock, celtic music.
I feel that limiting to 'Christian only' would be to miss out on so much creativity and possible inspiration (working on the 'it takes grit to make a pearl' principle).
'In the world' but not 'of the world' is the phrase that comes to mind.

[Colin]

Well I love Irish Country music and there is nothing offensive in the words...just stories set to music. My favourite music is Country Gospel and I adore Pipe Bands! Also love Irish celi music. I even play some instruments...but very badly! I do not think it is wrong to listen to other music rather than Christian. It is asked...why should the Devil have all the good tunes? It is not the tunes that are good or bad...it is the words thats put to them that make the difference.

[kshsj777]

Should Christians listen to non-Christian music?

That's a tough question!

Short Answer: Don't listen to anything that dishonors God, His Word, or His people.

Long Answer: Don't have one yet.

[pajarita_deDios]

Hmm. I don't feel I could function without music. If a song gives me a visceral punch, I'm in.

There are some amazing Christian bands out there right now that aren't being played the contemporary Christian stations. Bands like Hawk Nelson and EleventySeven are following the Punk scene with a good heart. The SeatBelt Tragedy, Eyes Set to Kill, Emery, Showbread, The Classic Crime. These bands are rocking out hard in the Christian scene with a nice side of screamo for those who enjoy it. Bands like Anberlin are out there as well. They're aren't a "Christian" band, but are comprised of a group of Christian guys who's faith really influences their music.

The point is there are so many of them out there right now that one only has to log onto to Myspace and find one to find the rest.

That being said, I also love Pearl Jam, Angels and Airwaves, Tegan and Sara and alot of other secular bands. I admit I'm a sucker for "Last Kiss" and "Hurricane". Although I probably was too young, I cut some of my rock teeth on Def Leopard and Scorpions...Haha, and I still love them.

Short Answer: Don't listen to anything that dishonors God, His Word, or His people.

I think kshs covered that nicely. Take the good and leave the bad. The point is, don't underestimate what God can use.

[Cymrugirl]

I figure if I can listen to an unbeliever discuss his feelings about something face to face in conversation, I can listen to his music. Music is really just an elevated expression of something a person is experiencing. People say things about life in songs that are too complicated to express in simple conversation.

I can't imagine Jesus saying "unless you talk about me and say only nice things, I have no interest in anything you could possibly say." I feel like if I shut off everything that the world uses to express its longings and frustrations, I might as well just reject it outright - which is not what I feel like God would have me do. I don't have to agree with the secular world, but I can be a good listener.

With that comes a caveat. Music effects people in different ways. I am very emotionally moved by music and have had the Holy Spirit move me to turn something off - not because it was something God didn't want to hear (after all, being omniscient, He's more familiar with the music scene than I am) but because of its effects on me. Some things are too hot to handle for my spiritual maturity level - or perhaps just my personality. God knows better than I do what I can and can't hear and handle - and He protects me.

[lynnmosher]

Lucia, I s-o-o agree with you. If we are attuned to the Holy Spirit, He will let us know when something isn't right for us to hear...or see, as in movies or TV. However, we must pay attention to His voice!

And, yes, Pajarita, your'e right...don't underestimate what God can use!

[wgjones3]

I figure if I can listen to an unbeliever discuss his feelings about something face to face in conversation, I can listen to his music. Music is really just an elevated expression of something a person is experiencing. People say things about life in songs that are too complicated to express in simple conversation.


Beautiful!

[jacks girl]

I think you can listen to, too much secular. I've done it in the past and know now that I have to watch what i put in. What you put in comes out. Fact of life. May be others dont have this problem. I like all kinds of music country, blue grass, rock, old rock.

dont like that heavy stuff just not my style

jacks girl

[ProfessorAlan]

I am not comfortable with the secular-spiritual split, and certainly not comfortable using the word "christian" as an adjective.

[Ransom v. Unman]

/grabs popcorn

All right! It's getting good!

[jacks girl]

is your popcorn getting cold? I can't wait for more folks to jump over here from CW. To keep these threads hopping a little more.

I'll throw this in. My dad would never let me sing anything that wasn't a Christian song. I would do it of course behind his back. But I still have to watch if he's over on the computer or something and I have toby keith on I'll be singing along for i know it. it just comes natural to do that if you sing.

jacks

[pajarita_deDios]

But I still have to watch if he's over on the computer or something and I have toby keith on I'll be singing along for i know it. it just comes natural to do that if you sing.

Haha, JG. My mom only let me listen to the contemporary Christian station (KLTY here in Dallas) or the soft rock stations, thus the reason I love 80's music so much. I don't know how she rationalized that the 80's rock bands were less raunchy then they are now.

I also have to add that we FINALLY got a Christian rock station here in Dallas a while back. Thankfully, because (not that I don't respect their work for the Lord), I'm not really into Amy Grant or Sierra. :p

[wgjones3]

I am not comfortable with the secular-spiritual split, and certainly not comfortable using the word "christian" as an adjective.

Good point. If I understand correctly, early followers of Christ didn't use the term Christian to describe themselves, either.

I also have to add that we FINALLY got a Christian rock station here in Dallas a while back.

We had one here for all of six months. The shrill gaggle of screaming harpies on the everyone-who-isn't-like-me-is-going-to-hell stations (three of 'em with an identical format and a purely saved-by-works doctrine) rallied their legion of listeners to call and complain about the perversion and have the station shut down. Turns out they didn't need to bother their dozen or so listeners, the Christian rock station couldn't get enough donations to stay on the air and ended up shutting down the transmitter. *sigh* Which reminds me, why does every Christian station end up being non-profit and listener supported? And why do the repeated requests for donations always seem to take up more airtime than ads on commercial stations?

[ProfessorAlan]

Which reminds me, why does every Christian station end up being non-profit and listener supported?

Oh I much prefer that to the horrible commercials and questionable "christian" businesses and products that end up advertised on the commercial-based stations. Give me fund-raising any time over that dreck!

[Gravity]

Unreconstructed capitalist that I am, I much prefer the free-market approach to radio than the twice-yearly pledge drives. And I'm not just saying this about Christian radio; PBS's love affair with them me nuts too. That's why my wife and I almost never watch it.

I simply believe that if that if the craft is good--be it music, writing, sculpting, painting, you call it--the market will support it. That, by neccessity, means securing enough advertising revenue to keep the tower lit. Anything less smacks of that "hand me down, poor me, good enough for gospel" crap that--hopefully--we're getting beyond.

[ProfessorAlan]

Unreconstructed capitalist that I am, I much prefer the free-market approach to radio ... I simply believe that if that if the craft is good--be it music, writing, sculpting, painting, you call it--the market will support it.

How is a pledge drive not the "free market?" I willingly send my local christian rock station money every month. That's my free market choice. That's how the market (of listeners) is supporting the station. Fund-raising is actually more direct capitalism than the advertising model, which depends on listeners to re-pay the advertisers who have paid for air time on station, as opposed to me paying the station directly.

But my main complaint is the low-rent, pseudo-spiritual, possibly scam, and generally cringe-worthy services and products that I've heard advertised on christian commercial stations across the country.

[Ransom v. Unman]

Dang! Now we're bringing a free-market debate into the works!

/pours butter on popcorn

Please, by all means, keep going!

[jacks girl]

I don't want to change the sub here but i can't help but say it bugs the begeeveers out of me that PBS gets government money to help run their stations but they still get on there and beg away like they are broke and never seem to mention the funding they get. I don't watch them for this reason. I think Big bird alone could have funded pbs.

Sorry i'll climb down now from my soap box.
Hey don't hog the popcorn.

Jacks

[pajarita_deDios]

Originally Posted by wgjones3
Which reminds me, why does every Christian station end up being non-profit and listener supported?

Powerfm over here is listener supported. Sadly it's probably the best way to go. Have you heard most of the radio commercials out there today? It's worse than TV at times.

[Cymrugirl]

The bottom line for most Christian radio stations is that being listener supported gives them control over content. If they allow certain people to sell ads on their stations, then they can't close the doors to others. They are control heavy when it comes to how "clean" their programming is, and shutting down commercials that aren't created by them allow them to keep a handle on that.

PBS gets funding from the feds, but not enough to create all their programming. A lot of government supported groups are like that. They get a hand up from the government, but they have to do the rest of the work themselves. It's really better that way because they're more likely to pay attention to what viewers want if they're not going to get all their funding via taxation. If you took out the human element, they'd probably be out of control. In other words, forcing them to raise some of their funds via the public viewer means accountability is kept in check.

The Christian radio station here has some great folks working for it. Very down to earth. I like listening to the DJ's more than I like listening to the music they play. It's nice when you've been stuck in a very secular environment to climb in a vehicle and hear live voices of people who share your faith. There's an instant quickening in my heart and I feel less alone - especially when I'm on the road. There was a song a few years back called "The Other Side of the Radio" and I thought it described pretty fully the reason why radio can be so powerful - the way it can bring unity between Christians miles apart from each other - people who don't even know each other. There's something pretty cool about that.

[pajarita_deDios]

My beef with KLTY here in Dallas is that they have recently changed they're moto from "The Christian family station" or something like that to "Be Positive" and have added quite a few secular bands into the mix. I'm not against secular bands, but seems like they basically sold out.

[Ransom v. Unman]

With the experiences I've had with the Christian music industry Pajarita, that doesn't surprise me. In fact, it relieves me a bit. Seems like they're beginning to become more honest, if nothing else.

[Cymrugirl]

So they're becoming more inclusive rather than exclusive? Hmm. Sounds like Jesus.

[Ransom v. Unman]

...yet something still tells me Jesus probably wouldn't dig easy listening.

Well, maybe He would. :rolleyes:

[ProfessorAlan]

Love the Steve Taylor song "Easy Listsening," which uses the christian music industry as an analog for the church, and mocks both.

How did we strike it rich?
Kissing up to the powerful
How did we make our pitch?
Satellites by the towerful

My conscience was clear and my wallet was full
I didn't hear none of this "sacrifice" bull
Tough times call for a backtrack
Gimme that old-time easy listening

Tickle my ear and I'll pay for your show
Sing about stuff that I already know
Whisper sweet nothings
Pour a nightcap
Gimme that old-time easy listening

I'm ok, you're ok, we're ok, so
I think I'm gonna buy my own radio show
Spread the good news and the Barry Manilow
Happy talk, no rock, non-stop easy listening

[Ransom v. Unman]

I think Jesus would've like Steve Taylor a lot. :D

[Tommie Lyn]

Should Christians listen to non-Christian music?


I listen to whatever music I enjoy. Period. I don't think about whether it is Christian or non-Christian. With that said, I'll have to tell you, I don't enjoy the profane, drag-you-through-the-muck stuff that's popular now. Makes my skin crawl and puts me into a very bad state of mind. And that's when I merely hear it blasting from a car driving past -- I'd hate to think what might happen should I be forced to actually listen to it. {shudder}

Music is a very powerful emotional spur for me, and as such, I'm quite dependent on it when I'm writing. I'll put the earphones on and listen to whatever piece of music will generate the emotions I need to produce a particular kind of story.

There are a couple of songs, though, that will almost always put an emotional "fingerprint" on whatever story I'm writing: "Lowdown" by Boz Scaggs and "Sky King" by Danny Gatton. I don't use them for everything -- I reserve them and use them like big guns when needed. (My NaNovel, "...And Night Falls," was almost entirely written to "Lowdown." I'd put it on repeat and write away.)

[JCsAngelPen]

I love music of all kinds and adore anything with a good tune and an endearing message. Be it country, Christian, rock, emo, etc...it doesn't matter to me as long as it's predominantly clean.

Sometimes there are songs that I love, but that have a few faults in the language or themes...and it doesn't stop me from listening to them, but I focus on the good and bad of the entire message.

I am fearless about my position that God does not object to rock, metal, or such music and only likes classical. Hah. As long as the song does not put down God, use extensive offensive language, and condone permissive behaviors, I have no problem with it.

[lawi]

its a crazy one:)...............I love gospel music but ... am a roots reggae fun ....I was a Rastafarian B4 conversion [my name was Ijah-man] but as much as I sometimes listen to the positive vibes they don't help me spiritually ...coz after a day of listening I don't feel like going for a prayer and fasting unlike when I listen to sweet gospel music, so over the years I have come to realize there is power in music ..there is some spiritual significant to what you listen to …as a musician when I approach a producer with a worship song he says its great if I play it as reggae I have been denying coz reggae is depicted as bad but have given inn and has been doing great as reggae spiritual artist so far most of my songs are reggae I love slow rock so much too but I tried to sing but not my type not good in it.
I now listen to a lot of Gospel I was the more you spent time on something it will eventually affect the way you think and perceive things..the kingdom of God is about faith ..if I say God is my dad and is faithful but listen to at of secular rock and spend a lot of time there I tend to see my faith starts to fade I start to see things differently it doesn’t apply am left having more questions ….but Glory to God and my his word live forever ….. When I sacrifice my time for his things my mind is renewed and transformed I can see things clearly and the words of God through His servants is able to change my life ..am proud of listening to Gospel though its sometime, challenging for someone who spent half his life in clubs, I knew Donnie Mcluckin last year when he toured Kenya [shame on me] but now I know a bunch of Gospel artistes and am proud of it
Am discovering new atistes as day goes by I remember when I was walking on the streets then I cam across a gospel VCD it was sold very cheaply here with 1 UD Dolla you can buy 3 VCD piracy is rampant so I bought it I was very blessed that I gave to pple to listen they lost it …I made many trips to streets so as to know who was the singer I only knew one name Paul so as I can buy one I didn’t succeed but I remembered one song was Jerusalem arise …or something then when I googled I fornd it was Paul Wilbur waaaaaaaaa I was so blessed I made sure I have a copy of his music too..[ i have some w-smith , Don Mowen, christafarians , Derlin Szech Donnie and some mixture of atistes am discovering new…honestly am new to Gospel but I love it each day ..i really love it !

I bless God coz before it was a struggle to listen to Gospel i used to listen to Roots Reggae through out the day then i put one Gospel song to sooth my conscience ....

[Phy]

There was a time when music influenced my feelings, but not anymore. Now, my feelings influence which music I play, not vice versa. For me, that's something that changed as I became spiritually (and physically?) mature.

[wgjones3]

"They're Coming to Take Me Away, Ha-Ha" - Napoleon XIV

[saz]

I'm a little late into this discussion. Hope people are still up for discussion.
For a short while I was only listening to music considered Christian but I couldn't keep that up. There just isn't enough variety and bands that I wanted to listen to over and over again.
I do listen very carefully to lyrics but that habit came out of my punk days. At that time I wouldn't listen to anything unless it had a very strong statement about life, the universe and everything.
My daughter is asserting her musical choices and I find that very disturbing. Not that I wish to control everything she does but I am trying to instill a need for her to choose carefully. She listens to a lot of fluff but I put my foot down when the lyrics are damaging. The other day she asked to down load a couple of songs so I had her pull up the lyrics. One song was glorifying prostitution. She hadn't even realized what the song was about. Thankfully she was as horrified as I was.
Just my two cents.
Oh, yeah, Hi everyone. Nice to be back.

[Ransom v. Unman]

Thankfully she was as horrified as I was.


/whew

Glad she hasn't gone that far south yet...

[mel3]

I think music is a way of expressing yourself, if you like, it could be described as poetry. And from some of the poetry Ive read (Even Christian) The lyrics/words arnt all that different.
The heavy stuff with meaningless bellowing is an exception.

Just dont put it all before the Lord. Hes first.

[jacks girl]

Curious what was the name of the song glorifying Prostitution?

Jacks

[righter1]

Hubby and I were discussing this last night, some at least. I can listen to Christian pop music occasionally, but not for very long. I don't know why.

My music tastes run from classical and opera to jazz to big band to oldies and classic rock, though. I currently have a 'Rock' mix on my iTunes that's playing anything from Kansas to Barry Manilow to a band called Bond (which I think are fabulous, but no one seems to know who they are...)

[saz]

Curious what was the name of the song glorifying Prostitution?

Jacks

Sorry, I can't remember what it was called. I'll ask my daughter if she remembers.

[Tarin]

I can listen to Christian pop music occasionally, but not for very long. I don't know why.

Probably because it all starts to sound the same after the third song...:rolleyes:

a band called Bond (which I think are fabulous, but no one seems to know who they are...)

Hey! I've heard of 'em!:cool:

[righter1]

Probably because it all starts to sound the same after the third song...:rolleyes:

You may be right about that... :p


Hey! I've heard of 'em!:cool:

Really??!?! Awesome!

[Ransom v. Unman]

Hubby and I were discussing this last night, some at least. I can listen to Christian pop music occasionally, but not for very long. I don't know why.
Probably for the same reason most people can't eat too much cotton candy before getting a toothache. >_<

Sorry, I can't remember what it was called. I'll ask my daughter if she remembers.

It's probably best not to give these cretins the credit of even knowing their name or the name of their terrible works. Negative attention is still attention.

[saz]

Probably for the same reason most people can't eat too much cotton candy before getting a toothache. >_<



It's probably best not to give these cretins the credit of even knowing their name or the name of their terrible works. Negative attention is still attention.

Good point.

[passionpen]

This is been a struggle of mine. I really think certain secular songs can plant seeds in your head. For instance if you struggle with some sort of sexual sin, there are some songs you just shouldn't listen to. I know I can listen to one catchy song and the lyrics will stay for me for at least a couple of weeks. And I have noticed a change in my thinking as a result. So, I mean, God wants us to live lives that glorify Him, so if listening to a song may affect the way you think, which may lead to how you make decisions, I'd say leave it alone. But there are other songs that will not, so it's okay.

There's a song many like right now called "Broken Hallelujah." I don't think that's a good one for us to listen to, because it's anti-God. At first it starts off okay, but sad. Then he says that love is nothing but a broken-hallelujah, but we know love is God...

and here's the last stanza of the song

Well maybe there's a God above
But all I've ever learned from love
Was how to shoot somebody who'd OUT DREW YA
And it's not a cry that you hear at night
It's not somebody who's seen the light
It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah

I think as we grow in God's truth and love, we won't want to listen to things that are against Him or His righteousness. He gave us the gift of song to praise Him...but I think we have to grow into that. And I really think it's a personal conviction.

[kluchar70]

This was a hard point for me when I turned my life over to God. I absolutely love music! It has been a strong part of my life at all stages. It speaks to me, moves me, inspires me, its effects are amazing. But when I started to listen to just Christian music back in the eighties, I thought, "Wow, this is all that I have to listen to?" But there is so much more to chose from now. Do I listen to it exclusively? No. I just try to watch the lyrics that I listen to. Secular music still has the market cornered on new styles of music. Christian music tends to copy what's out there rather than originate. I have heard people say that they won't buy secular music because they don't want to support that band's lifestyle. But I have no idea what kind of lifestyle a lot of the Christian bands that I listen to are leading. My guideline is that if I feel that the music I listen to is not grieving the Holy Spirit within me, then it is fine.

[Cymrugirl]

There was a time when music influenced my feelings, but not anymore. Now, my feelings influence which music I play, not vice versa. For me, that's something that changed as I became spiritually (and physically?) mature.


I've noticed this about myself. I'm completely different emotionally than I was twenty years ago. I actually don't reach for music very often now.

I also tend to gravitate toward completely different styles.

When my daughter's in the car, we listen to kid's music radio - which is actually pretty cheery. She nearly passed out with excitement this morning hearing Michael Buble sing Spiderman.

[kaulimus]

Oh, this has been quite an internal debate for me!

I came from a background of grunge/hard rock into a world in which hardly any of it is accepted. Even some of the Christian hard rock I enjoy is held at somewhat of a distance by my church community.

I've always been somewhat in awe of the music of Pearl Jam (as, I think, Pajarita said back on page one), and was horrorstruck when I returned to review some of their lyrics. Furthermore, I've come to find that some of the songs I've liked almost exclusively for their lyrics (Audioslave's haunting "Like a Stone," for example, if any of you have heard of it) were considered by many Christians to be akin to pagan worship.

What, essentially, I've decided is that music is like a snapshot. It's a slice of life, a moment in time that conveys a certain emotion. If that emotion is despair or confusion, very well; there is still beauty in it, it still promotes productive thought. If the song revels in outright immorality (a sexual tryst, misogyny, outright blasphemy--you know, the kind that insults rather than questions God), I turn the sucker off, no matter how nice the beat.

We have to be fluid and flexible, because the world is not quite as clearly defined between Christian and secular as we'd like to believe. We're all God's children, we're all sharing a similar experience--the difference is that some of us have different perspectives on that experience than others.

[Cymrugirl]

Music is very psychological - and since the human psychology varies so much between gender, age, and overall background - it would be very hard to pin a 'sin' or 'not sin' label on something for everyone.

Physical sins are much easier to define in ourselves and other people. We can see it - there's a physical line.

[Tarin]

She nearly passed out with excitement this morning hearing Michael Buble sing Spiderman.

Hey, she's got good taste!:D

[Merry]

Hmmm...I've been grabbing handfuls of popcorn from Ransom and reading this thread. It's just really interesting to hear what people think about this topic.

My meager two-cents...we're missing something. What it is in on the tip of my tongue and I don't quite have a handle on it...but I think there's something in the whole Christian music world we're just not seeing. Sorry for such a weird and vague post. I'm going to get my own box of popcorn now before Ransom bites off my hand.

[saz]

I've been thinking about this issue for the last few days.I'll try and summarize what my thoughts are.
Secular music speaks to us as humans interacting with humans and all the love, pain, angst, anger is very familiar to most people. These are feelings most of us have had experience with and can therefore relate to/with.Our scope is human and our understanding is universal.
'Christian' music tries to speak to us of our relationships with our Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. These are so intimate and individual to each of us and so we cannot always relate to the topics the same way as the people writing or singing these songs. My experiences of God differ from each of yours, and although love is central to all our experiences, because God is love, how it touches us and how we respond is completely different from our neighbor.

Because we live in this world our understanding is limited to this world, but an experience with our Lord is not of this world and trying to convey that message and that love is so difficult. i find the same is true with 'Christian' fiction. I quite often find it hard to swallow and not of my experience.

Anyway, i hope you can understand what i was trying to say and I hope I didn't offend anyone.
Blessings.

[writegirl1949]

To a certain extent, I agree with PassionPen. But, I also believe that as we grow spiritually, we're not as influenced.

I enjoy Christian music. And I've enjoyed it ever since I became a believer in the early 80s. I was deeply influenced and fed by Rich Mullins -- his lyrics are so visual and speak to me in a way few other Christian artists do. I was devastated when he was killed in an automobile accident.

But, I'm one of those Baby Boomers and the popular Christian music is less appealing than it once was. So I'll listen to the local station which recently went through a restructuring and is reaching out to a younger audience so after a few days, I need a break.

That's when I rely on my old stand-bys ... U2, ELO, Moody Blues, Gordon Lightfoot, Dan Fogleberg. I love Irish and Celtic music and will often spend days listening to my favorites on my iPod. And there are always the oldies ... the comfort food of music.

And, my music selection depends on what I'm doing. U2 and ELO are great to do housework by :p

I no longer need music like I did when I was younger -- as many have written. After all, we can best hear God in the quiet.

Blessings, Francine

[waiter]

Well, fairly phenomenal question to put out there as it has resulted in some excellent thoughts from so many. Probably one of the most interesting discussions I've seen in a while.
Bottom line, when I got saved in the early days and for years after I felt obligated to not listen any secular stuff even if I liked it. Thinking it my duty.I held this line for many years. Then something happened and a shift occurred. I realized that it was okay for me to enjoy stuff secular which gave me no bad vibes spiritually. That's my rule, I'll listen or watch anything that abides by this rule for myself.

A friend of mine and I discussed this a while back, and he made an interesting comment. He is an artist and I have some of his work hanging in my office as he has some real talent. He's been at this for many years and it has been a big deal going back to the time before his salvation. Therefore he is familiar with the whole thing of creative expression as he has plying this thing for decades.

He stated that believers often rule out anything creative coming from non christians...just because they're non christians and only because of that. He stated that God makes his rain fall on the just and the unjust. That is, that some of the creative expression we see in all sorts of art forms, music being a huge one, is from God, and just because these folks do not know God in a personal way or have come into Christ, does not mean their expression is not of God. God is moving in them to express, they live and move in him and have their being in him though they do not realize it, and what is coming out of their spirits is something that is incredible. Recently I heard Annie Lennox-now I'm not a fan of some of her music, just no personal joy or appeal to me- and she sang "Many Rivers" on American Idol Gives Back. What an incredible performance and what a voice!

I agree with my friend: God does make his rain fall on the just and the unjust.
I have heard music from many secular artists which has moved me to my soul so that it had nothing to do with them being christian or non christian. The expression coming out of them was divine and incredible. I have heard christian music-it's improved incredibly as there are some incredible musicians and music out there more than ever- that is as far as I'm concerned, not touching or moving anyone it is so lacking in passion and artistic expression that touches and moves hearts.

[saz]

Well, fairly phenomenal question to put out there as it has resulted in some excellent thoughts from so many. Probably one of the most interesting discussions I've seen in a while.
Bottom line, when I got saved in the early days and for years after I felt obligated to not listen any secular stuff even if I liked it. Thinking it my duty.I held this line for many years. Then something happened and a shift occurred. I realized that it was okay for me to enjoy stuff secular which gave me no bad vibes spiritually. That's my rule, I'll listen or watch anything that abides by this rule for myself.

A friend of mine and I discussed this a while back, and he made an interesting comment. He is an artist and I have some of his work hanging in my office as he has some real talent. He's been at this for many years and it has been a big deal going back to the time before his salvation. Therefore he is familiar with the whole thing of creative expression as he has plying this thing for decades.

He stated that believers often rule out anything creative coming from non christians...just because they're non christians and only because of that. He stated that God makes his rain fall on the just and the unjust. That is, that some of the creative expression we see in all sorts of art forms, music being a huge one, is from God, and just because these folks do not know God in a personal way or have come into Christ, does not mean their expression is not of God. God is moving in them to express, they live and move in him and have their being in him though they do not realize it, and what is coming out of their spirits is something that is incredible. Recently I heard Annie Lennox-now I'm not a fan of some of her music, just no personal joy or appeal to me- and she sang "Many Rivers" on American Idol Gives Back. What an incredible performance and what a voice!

I agree with my friend: God does make his rain fall on the just and the unjust.
I have heard music from many secular artists which has moved me to my soul so that it had nothing to do with them being christian or non christian. The expression coming out of them was divine and incredible. I have heard christian music-it's improved incredibly as there are some incredible musicians and music out there more than ever- that is as far as I'm concerned, not touching or moving anyone it is so lacking in passion and artistic expression that touches and moves hearts.
WELL SAID.