A must read for those considering self-publishing

[Merry]

http://chipmacgregor.typepad.com/main/2007/11/self-publishing.html

Ya' gotta read this blog. It's by a guy who has more experience in publishing than most of us will ever have. Wondering whether you should pay to publish? Definitely read the above first!

Thanks to lynnemosher for the find!

[ProfessorAlan]

key sentence: "If you want to throw your money at a project in order to feel better about yourself, who am I to stop you?"

[ChristChild]

It is the following sentences and the above that make me glad I self-published. I don't want anything to do with arrogant middle men:

"He goes in debt $12,000, but he can puff his chest out at his 20th high school reunion, since he's now "An Author." That's the game, Denise."

The cost is now usually less than $2000 at most, and self-published authors, many that I know, are not doing it out of arrogance. They simply want to get their work out to the public, since arrogant agents like this won't even bother to consider most manuscripts. Many authors do not want to wait a million years on the 0.2% chance they will get picked up by a big agent or publisher. I guess this agent, in his arrogance, subscribes arrogant motives to others.

Further down in the questions I found this:

"I'm sorry -- I'm an agent, and I know this sounds completely self-serving. But I used to be an editor, a senior editor, and a publisher, and I can tell you with certainty that the publishing business has moved away from the do-it-yourselfer and toward the professionals and specialists."

Yes, it is self-serving and arrogant. Professional and relevant by their estimation. This is why it is rare to find Christian works from several genres out on store shelves, produced by the big publishers. It is due to the big publisher's upper crust people restricting works to what they like and think will make them big money--not on a work's merit as a good story. They don't have time to read but a small piece of a work anyway. If that doesn't fit their cookie cutter, they don't give it a second glance. Sorry, I don't want to play their game. To me, POD was a Godsend. It gives authors the ability to have their novels, unfiltered, printed and available to the public, for all who will simply search around a bit on Amazon, BAMM, etc...

Shane

[Tamera]

I don't want to offend you and I may be wrong, but your statements are coming across as bitter. I pray that God is helping you with the hurt and rejection you have experianced.

[Gravity]

Okay, first, a caveat: Chip's my agent. And a darn good one. Those of you who wish to tune out, now's your chance.

For those still reading, let me tell you something: I know the man. What Chip says, he says not out of arrogance, but out of a consuming passion to see good writing get as wide a readership as it can.

And that's all.

Does he make a buck or three at this game? Yep. So do I, and as an author I'm not ashamed to admit it. It's called capitalism, and it's a beautiful thing. Because the truth of the matter is, cream does rise to the top, in any enterprise. Whether it be cars, sofas, music, or even, yes, books, these three words shine out more often than not: quality will out.

I daresay most of us write our stuff hoping it'll be read by as many as people as possible. And that's what an agent does, Shane. An agent--a good one, at any rate--will filter out the crap that comes across their desks, and only present what they hope is gold to publishing houses. Does it always work? Nope. Sometimes the most incredible dreck gets through, and shows up in your local bookstore. But by and large, quality will out.

What's the percentage you quoted of the books that make it through this grueling process? Did you say 2%? That's about right; some would say it's even less. About on par with someone who wishes to be on center stage at the Met, or throwing the long bomb downfield on Superbowl Sunday, or taking the lead in Steven Spielberg's latest opus. The public will pay top dollar to see good work...and won't cross the street to see anything less.

Just some random thoughts here. Do with them as you will.

[DrRita]

Further down in the questions I found this:

"I'm sorry -- I'm an agent, and I know this sounds completely self-serving. But I used to be an editor, a senior editor, and a publisher, and I can tell you with certainty that the publishing business has moved away from the do-it-yourselfer and toward the professionals and specialists."

Yes, it is self-serving and arrogant. Professional and relevant by their estimation. This is why it is rare to find Christian works from several genres out on store shelves, produced by the big publishers. It is due to the big publisher's upper crust people restricting works to what they like and think will make them big money--not on a work's merit as a good story. They don't have time to read but a small piece of a work anyway. If that doesn't fit their cookie cutter, they don't give it a second glance. Sorry, I don't want to play their game. To me, POD was a Godsend. It gives authors the ability to have their novels, unfiltered, printed and available to the public, for all who will simply search around a bit on Amazon, BAMM, etc...

Shane

It has less to do with arrogance and more to do with the quality of the writing or the idea. Most people who rush to self publish are not willing to learn the craft nor listen to those who have already run the gauntlet. Nor do they have the patience to wait . . .

The second point about making money is part of business. Sad but true, these publishing houses are not churches funded by the benevolent kindness of Christian giving. They have to earn their money BACK so they can stay in business. Christian publishing pays the least and makes the least. If your book is so good, it will get picked up by a publishing house. If it isn't time for it or it's schlocky writing or the idea has been done a hundred times, it NEEDS NOT to be self published but REWRITTEN. Most people who self publish simply need to learn to write.

[raindancer_ph]

Gravity makes a point about cream rising to the top. There are loads of writers who've started out as self-published. If I remember correctly, Anne Rice self-published a book of poems before she became a popular writer. Quite a good number of artists/poets/fictionists/memoirists have self-published at some point.

I don't think it's a negative thing to self-publish, but I think that if you do choose to go that route, you've got to have a fantastic editor, a good marketing plan, and your stuff has got to be 100% up to par. BTW, wasn't it Eragon where the parents put up a publishing house just for the sake of publishing their son's book? After the book showed success in campuses and through publicities done by the author and family, it was picked up by one of the major publishing houses.

I think it´s also having faith in your project, being able to promote, and having the network to help you make your project a success. Hmmmm....I find myself wondering how much of a book's success depends on the marketting engine.

[DrRita]

Eragon was a success because the IDEA was good. His writing was atrocious but he had a great idea. Same with Rowling . . . not the best writer but a killer idea.

The problem with most self published works is BOTH writing and idea lack merit. Market research and some classes can remedy some of the problems. If your idea has been done already, chances are your book (by an unknown) won't sell, UNLESS you are a dynamite speaker and haul your books around for the audience to buy.

Otherwise, to get that one gold ring, the competition is very stiff indeed.

[theherrings3]

My reasons for self-pub is due to the whole "agented manuscript" requirement by some pub houses. I found, that when approaching a publishing company to submit, they suggest I use an agent. When searching for an agent, most do not accept unestablished clients or clients with poetry books. Yes, I am aware that publishers/agents wants what sells, and if poetry doesn't sell, it goes ignored; a red-headed stepchild. Chip does tell it like it is. It may seem negative, but let's face it, there's a lot of truth in life that isn't so rosey. Yes, a well-polished script helps, but even big pub houses make errors. I read a lot of books, published by the big houses and found grammar, punctuation, and spelling errors. Some online sites like Lulu.com and Createspace does make it easy, especially when Createspace gives up an ISBN for free and lists in on Amazon, which does accept returns. I wouldn't want to invest $500-$10,000 in another print-on-demand that has the same benefits, since most do not have a marketing dept. I've learned that the debate over big pubs VS. self pubs will continue; an unending war. My two cents is for the unpublished author to weigh his/her options and what's best for their project. Do your homework, look at costs, do everything to make sure every dollar is well spent.
-Fin-

Adam Herring
Adam Herring Poetry / Herring Literary Service (http://www.adamherringpoetry.com)

[Merry]

Very good points. Especially the bottom line: get yourself educated thoroughly on the subject before making a decision.

I've seen too many fiction writers get sucked into paying big bucks for a POD that ends up sitting in the garage or gracing the shelves of the local Good Will. Christians can get pulled in because we can apparently convince ourselves rather easily that it isn't our crummy manuscript getting doors closed in our faces, but the minions of satan who don't want our 'special light' to be spread among the masses.

Seen it.

But Adam is right. There are some scenario's where POD is not a bad thing. But...do your homework, do your homework, do your homework....(okay, in real life I teach fourth grade, do I sound like it yet?)

[raindancer_ph]

I think that there are certain genres where the writer doesn't have a choice but to go POD. I know of a number of excellent poets who've been published in various mags but can't find a publisher because poetry just doesn't sell. There are small presses who do entertain new poets, however this often comes in the form of competitions with a reading fee or entry fee of about 20-25 dollars per entry.

The reason behind this is small presses are often funded independently or rely on very small grants, so they don't really have much choice if they want to keep ops afloat.

But no matter where you eventually decide to publish, Merry's right. It's essential to do your homework. I would add to this, that it's also a good idea to try and get your work published in recognized publications as to the reader, this is an indication of the quality of work that's produced by the writer.

Also, it looks good in a collection if the front page lists a number of previously published works that have appeared in recognized presses ;). Just my opinion though.

[Rocky]

My decision to go with POD my first book was several:
1 - The main reason is, as a technology geek, I find it fun to take a ride on the technology evolution of POD;
2 - To get accepted by a traditional publisher is too hard for the first time author, and somehow I don't enjoy sending many copies of my manuscript only to be rejected weeks and months later--time waster;
3 - It also take too long to get the book out;
4 - I regard myself a postmodern and tend to be turned off by the modernity of the traditional publishing;
5 - I found out that using traditional marketing doesn't eliminate marketing by myself, unless I am really famous;
6 - Of course, another reason is my book belongs to a niche market;
7 - And POD is getting less expensive and higher quality than ever; it doesn't break your wallet;
8 - The only downside that I see with POD is, you work will be less likely to be reviewed by the editors, but I think this will soon be changing since more and more books are coming out of POD.

Just my 2 cents!

I published my first book with Xulon. But, will I use them again? No. The reason is they are expensive and didn't produce the result for the extra cost. They say that their books get extra exposure through their radio and other channels related to their parent company Salem. But every single book sold so far has been through me, through my church members, and through the conferences where I was invited to speak. Even the books sold through Amazon.com was bought by the people that know me because they informed me and I compare the numbers with the statement I received from Xulon. But, I appreciate the experience and the things I learned from the process.

Since I now know that Xulon actually prints the books through Lightning Source, I would go with them next time. But, I wouldn't be able to go with Lightning Source previously because I wouldn't know the proper things to do without the experience with Xulon.

Blessings!

Sam

[thayes]

I understand what all of you are saying and I agree that we have to know what we are dealing with so that we are not 'played' into releasing your hard earned money into someone else's hand. We have to make informed decisions.

I have been taking in a lot of the information on self publishing and I'm not sure that it really matters which direction you go in as much as whether or not it is in God's plan for your destiny. We are all walking out our journey with the Lord. It just seems to me, that He already knows which publisher is going to be used, when, and all of that.

So......it really shouldn't matter. The true questions are these.

Lord, do I send this gift, that you gave me, to this company? Will they respect and appreciate this gift? What is Your plan for what You have given me?

This simplifies things to a degree of 'handleability' for me. It isn't mine to decide. It is the Lord's, He knew the plan from the beginning.

[Rocky]

Lord, do I send this gift, that you gave me, to this company? Will they respect and appreciate this gift? What is Your plan for what You have given me?

How do you know the answer to your question?

[thayes]

Rocky-That, my friend, is a fully loaded question.
But the Lord has a way of getting us on the road He wants us on, as long as we are daily seeking His face and spending time with Him, we won't miss it when the opportunity presents itself. He will make the connection you need. Just stay before Him and be alert. He will show you.
The key is the waiting to hear His response. Everything within you will want to fight it. You will break out in a sweat fighting the urge to "do something", but fight it. You wait and He will show you and when you see it but you're still not sure.... don't worry, if He needs to tell you again, trust me, He will.

At least that is the way it has been for me.

[James E. Tate]

Now you have done it! Those who have gone the self publishing route have shared your problems with us, and we have benefitted by them.
I'm in the process of writing an Anthology including selections from my life's writings. Even though I have hundreds of published prose and poetry items, unless I come up with a bang-up cliff hanger, intriguing plot, unique grabber to clinch the reader, it may never be picked up by a publisher. Yes, my family and friends will want it--they've asked me to do this for ages, but what about you, the unknown public? How can I reach you? What about getting a powerful agent interested? So many unanswered questions to deal with.
Sereral of you have said that we should first go to our knees in prayer, seeking God's guidance. That's where I need to spend time before wasting it on a dream. Make sense? I think so.
James E. Tate, columnist, editor, writer of sorts.

[philo]

Quote:
Lord, do I send this gift, that you gave me, to this company? Will they respect and appreciate this gift? What is Your plan for what You have given me?
Quote:
How do you know the answer to your question?

As I read this thread, all I could ask myself is 'where is the Lord in all these decisions?'
How do you know the answer? Isn't that the crux of Christianity and our personal relationship with the God Who created the universe? 'How do you know?' is a far more important question than determining if and where to POD. IMHO.

[lcougars08]

I just wanted to let you guys know that I did publishing through Wine Press/ Pleasant Word because I have spoken at different MOPS groups, and I am a young married Sunday School teacher in a rather large church - and I have had some women approach me about writing a Bible study and that is what I did - it is non-fiction and that makes a huge difference but it wasn't that expensive and I know I will get my money back eventually - and the great thing is - I am not doing it for the money - I am doing it to change marriages - so either way it is a win - win for me. Did I try the traditional publisher - yes - but it is a very SLOW process and I have a group of women who needed some encouragement yesterday - so I went through Wine Press and I highly recommend them - and I am not arrogant - just wanting to be an encourager. Just thought you'd like to know......

[philo]

Could you let us know your experience with WinePress? I have heard very "mixed" reviews.

[jacks girl]

I read about 3 paragraphs then closed the link. i don't know this man but i don't care for his attitude. You can never win anyone over by spitting in their face so to say. He seemed angry at these people for self publishing. He has no idea why someone might want to self publish.

He's Assuming that we all want to thump our chest at some reunion when he has no clue who we are or what our feelings or reasons are. May be some of us don't have the brains or the patients to wade through the rivers of information to get published.

If it makes someone happy then thats fine. It's their money may be it's not the best way to go about selling books I don't know. Each person has to make their own choices I have considered self publishing but I would have to research it and look into it.

This man may know what he's talking about I don't know enough about either topic to say for sure but he lost me with the angry like attitude. I like to learn from people that show me the pro's and con's from both sides without making me feel like I'm an idiot if I don't pick the way they prefer.

[rachaelbenson@c]

Thanks for having this information about self-publishing. When I saw this I was considering it in the future after "Rachael The Miracle Chld" didn't get published. If future stories didn't get published in a magazine I was going to consider self-publishing but it all sounds like a scam! I will get published, Just not today! Here are a few thoughts for all of us to keep in mind whether or not we get published! It's the chorus from the song I learned when I was in Living Proof for five years. Our high school college choir at my church. The song is written by Steven V. Taylor and the musical is called "Life On The Edge". The song is called "God Is God".
"God is God and I am not
I can only see a part of the picture He's paninting
God is God and I am man so I'll never understand it all
For Only God is God."
I don't understand why "Rachael The Miracle Child" didn't get published. As far as I'm concerned when I look at the guidelines it should have made it. For some reason it didn't. I just need to keep writting and eventually one of my stories will get published! It's not my job to try to figure out why the first one didn't get published. God has a reason for not allowing that story to get published. I just don't know what that reason is because I don't have the mind of God. As disappointing as it is it is not a mistake that it didn't get published. The fact that Guideposts tells me they would like to see more stories in the future tells me that I'm on that right track. So remember that when you're writting okay everybody? When your story doesn't get published there's always a good reason. Romans 8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him who are called according to His purpose" Hang in there!

[50/50 Adventure]

Because the truth of the matter is, cream does rise to the top, in any enterprise. Whether it be cars, sofas, music, or even, yes, books, these three words shine out more often than not: quality will out.


Not necessarily true . . . . . there are plenty of cases where smart marketing has had the inferior product prevail and the higher quality product disappear.

[lcougars08]

I know someone had a question about winepress - I actually used their sister company Pleasant Word - and I picked a package - some start at 600.00 and go up to 2000.00. It just depends on what you want. In January they had a special promo last year so I got 30 free books when mine were finished - so that is great for marketing purposes. The only negative I can say is that they said 90 -180 days and it was more like 365! Almost a year to the date I sent it off. They try and get you to buy the "speed it up" package half way into it for more money - but I would rather save my money and learn more patience! :) I had a great project manager who was with me, helping me, the entire time - and the finished product is BEAUTIFUL! Well worth the wait! I hope that helps.

[Gravity]

For what it's worth, "this man" is Chip MacGregor, a very well-regarded, highly-successful agent with over twenty years' experience in the trenches. And Jack's Girl, you're right: the ol' Chipper would be the first to admit he's a hard-nosed, tough negotiator, armed with bulldog tenacity and an absolute passion for his clients.

Which is cool, since I am one. :D

[philo]

I read about 3 paragraphs then closed the link. i don't know this man but i don't care for his attitude. You can never win anyone over by spitting in their face so to say. He seemed angry at these people for self publishing. He has no idea why someone might want to self publish.

He's Assuming that we all want to thump our chest at some reunion when he has no clue who we are or what our feelings or reasons are. May be some of us don't have the brains or the patients to wade through the rivers of information to get published.

If it makes someone happy then thats fine. It's their money may be it's not the best way to go about selling books I don't know. Each person has to make their own choices I have considered self publishing but I would have to research it and look into it.

This man may know what he's talking about I don't know enough about either topic to say for sure but he lost me with the angry like attitude. I like to learn from people that show me the pro's and con's from both sides without making me feel like I'm an idiot if I don't pick the way they prefer.

He's an agent, so you can expect him to have a particular mindset. Many agents and others in the traditional publishing world seem more than a bit put out by all this self publishing, POD, and other non-traditional forms of distribution of ideas. Understandably; their livelihood is threatened. For a similar change, talk to any of the "big three" networks about their business over the past 10 years or so. Their lunch has been eaten by cable TV. Whose lunch is now being nibbled at by the Internet. Soon to be gobbled up. Democracy is a dangerous concept for the established power structure when that power is concentrated in the hands of a few.
Is every book that is self-distributed "worthy" of a wider audience? Probably not. But who is to say what's "worthy"? If memory serves, experts like the agent ranting about self-distributed work have been gloriously wrong about particular manuscripts in the past. Just as a for instance, ask the agents and publishers who turned down "Harry Potter."
If we're led by God to write, then we must write. If He leads us down other paths for distribution, then so be it. But God's idea of "success" for our book may not match the world's definition. It may not even match our own definition. We don't always know what He's up to. Nor are we supposed to. We are supposed to obey Him. Regardless of what the world and various "experts" in the world may have to say.
Long live the bumble-bee who isn't supposed to be able to fly.

[Gravity]

And with that, I'll bow out of this discussion (for now). Blessings.

[jacks girl]

I agree may be it's our lot in life to self publish our books and give them away. It's a gift from God to be able to write. I think people have to chose for themselves what to do. We need to look into all the pro's and con's of this Industry and make the best decision that we can.

Time will only answer my questions on which is the best way to go. I will add with Ebay and all of our web sites that we have it seems to be like one of the best times to self publish.

Jacks