Not all trees on the hill are the same

[DavidPaul]

Hello, friends and spinners and weavers of words... New, here, I am. I've stopped by because I've just signed with Tate Publishing and I've read lots of stuff in blogs and discussion sites... most of it not positive. So, let me share my experience. I have published several books through self-publishers (I didn't even list their titles on my personal info). Recently I published two books with a relatively new publisher, but this publisher simply does not have the financial resources to promote my books. So with self-publishing and a small publisher, I have not done well.
I contacted Tate Publishing, sent them a ms., and the usual turnaround is 19 weeks. They overnighted me a contract in less than 1 week. Yes, I was asked to put $3,995 into the enterprise. This requested sum from the author seems to be what is really held against Tate. After all, as I read over and over again, "publishers pay the author, the author doesn't pay the publisher." Tate Publishing takes on @ 4% of the work they look at. Much of this is by first time authors. ESTABLISHED PUBLISHERS AND AGENCIES WILL 98% OF THE TIME NOT EVEN CONSIDER AN UNPUBLISHED AUTHOR. Tate is taking a risk when they publish an unknown author!
Now, I have come to know the CEO of the publisher of my two most recently published books. I know what it costs to print a book (much less than many would suppose). What I also know is that my investment with Tate will NOT even cover the cost of printing the bound books. Tate is also making audio books of my ms. and e-books. IF MY BOOK DOES NOT SELL TATE WILL LOSE MONEY--THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT!
As I said, my investment won't cover the cost of printing the bound books, and this does not include costs of editing, design, layout, and the outlay for the other forms in which they are making the books available. It's true, I'm not sure how Tate Publishing will do in promoting my books, but my contract expressly states that they will do so.
The two well-degreed (and one is very well known in my church body) who I have asked to read the ms. for possible endorsement--love it! (And of course I have had others read it and the reaction lifts me). What does all this mean-- well I'm bragging of course ;-). ... I hope that's not how you're reading the intent of what I'm saying! (You don't even know me, so what good is bragging to you?). What I am saying is that I think that I've delivered them a very marketable product, now I'll just wait and see. And when all is said and done, it really is in God's hands, I just look forward to seeing if His hands show professionally at Tate. What I know from experience is that not all publishers (and the risks they take) are the same. Thanks!! David Paul

[love2write]

Hi DavidPaul,

I am glad you are happy with how things are going with Tate Publishing and I wish you well.

However, not every writer has 3-4 grand to pay for publication. One drawback is that if a writer produces another book and submits to publishers that do not charge, the self-published book does not count as a legitimate publishing credit. This is important to many writers.

Personally, I will never pay to be published or go with pod. The chances of recouping $4000 is slim for a start even with a lot of marketing if you do. Now, I don't know about Tate, but most vanity presses do not have bookstore placement. Bookstores can order a book from a vanity press, but books are not actually on the shelves. Big drawback for sales. Vanity and pod publishing for fiction writers is not a good idea.

As far as the cost of publishing goes, here are the figures.

It costs a publisher on average $3.00 to have a book printed on demand with a company like Lightning Source. It cost $1 if a book is printed in larger quantities with off-set printing.

If Tate is right for a writer, that's great. But I'd like to encourage all the fiction writers here at ChristianWriter.com to keep submitting your books to traditional publishers and literary agents. Attend writers conferences and join ACFW.

[DavidPaul]

Thanks for taking time. I agree that the best route for an author is to find an agent or seek traditional publishers. I've been doing that for 30 years with much frustration, and my writing has been considered quality. The publisher that I have two books with says that I am one of his two best authors. I have been asked to do a lot of wrting for Concordia Publishing House, but that's all fee based.

The publication establishment is such that it by design will make it very difficult for new authors to even be considered. Once again, 98% of the BIG publishers and agencies will not even CONSIDER an unpublished author.

Secondly, Tate Publishing is very clear that it is NOT a vanity publisher. They receive about 10,000 submissions a year and accept only about 4%. They consider themselves as a subsidy publisher and in most cases they ask the author to share in the risk. They state (and it might be on my contract... I would need to look) that they will contribute over $19,000 into the publication and marketing of my book... bound, audio and electronic.

Thirdly, with Tate, if 5,000 books of mine sell, then I receive back my investment of $3,995 and still keep all royalties. Tate also pays very high royalties, and author retains all movie rights and rights to any translations that may be made into other languages (Tate is willing to broker for a fee). You see, the real questions are two: 1) How confident is the author in the quality and timeliness of their book for a good market response? 2) How well will Tate do in marketing the author's book?

Firstly, I am very confident (because of reader response, etc.) of the quality and timeliness of my new book. As to the second question, well, that's what I'm anxious to determine. Before I went into the ministry, I was quite successful in marketing, so I know what to watch for in their efforts.

To sum it all up, using a company that presents the author with a contract giving the author so much control and potential profit over their ms. can be a good choice if the author is confident in the quality of their work. One might counter saying that if the ms. is that good, why not present it to conventional publishers? My response to that is that the author of the Harry Potter series did the traditional route approaching... was it 78 companies before a publisher took her on? None of the 78 saw her book as anything worth their publishing efforts. Traditional publishers may miss books that are written well and will do well on the market.

All that said, I would, with you, also encourage authors to seek traditional publishers first. If that fails for a long period of time, they may try a subsidy publisher like Tate, but these authors need to know that they may also have their work rejected by a subsidy publisher (because such publishers are not vanity publishers and seek not only to make a profit, but have integrity with book distributors and book stores concerning the quality of their publications).... whew.... that was long ;-)

[Reen]

How many books do you get for that money? Is it up to you to sell them, or will the publisher? You say they will. How do they do that? Book stores, web sites? I am so glad that it works for you. As you say it is almost impossible to get a publisher, and/or an agent. If you can sell 100 books and make a change in someone's life, it is worth it. If someone is blessed or made to think it is worth it. God's best!
Reen

[DavidPaul]

Once again... Tate is not a vanity publisher, so they will publish as many books as will sell. As far as who sells them, Tate is connected with all the major Christian book distributors and all major online book sales such as Amazon.com. I may sell books too, but that's not my job. I am the writer. Tate also features their books in catalogs, etc. that go to book stores. Yet keep in mind, it can be as difficult to get accepted by Tate Publishing as with any other Christian publisher. The big difference is that Tate Publishing is willing to look at the work of unpublished authors. As a matter of fact, I think they just won a prestigious award for their work with beginning authors.

[Reen]

Good for you. I hope you sell many books. When God gives us a gift, we must use it.
Reen

[dancingpsalmist]

Nice discussion. Since my work is mostly poetry, I plan to barter my self-publishing with a very good local Christian publishing house that produces fine work. As soon as I have my proofreading credentials updated, I hope to use proofreading skills in exchange for a small manuscript.

Any thoughts on that DavidPaul?

[dancingpsalmist]

The question to DavidPaul was moot, because he signed off already.

[jay8514]

i have signed with tate as well and my book will be coming out soon. It's been an okay experience. I sometimes wonder how the heck they miss some of the editing errors from the original copy.

nonetheless, i'm excited as the layout comes together and looks very marketable.

[DavidPaul]

Hello, Dancingpsalmist... Am I getting this clearly: you have a self-publisher that will print copies of your poems in exchange for proofreading? If so, and if your plan is to get the books into the hands of family and friends, I think that's a great idea! As always, a self-publisher will be little to no help in getting your book known.
And Jay... So you're with Tate, too. What we both must see is their marketing efforts for us. You must have read my post, was your contract similar? And, did I understand you correctly that I need to be careful on watching how well the proofread my manuscript during their editing of the ms.? Thanks all... David

[jay8514]

Hey David,
yeah, be a bit cautious during the editing stage. I'm not sure about the marketing as of yet since my book isn't out, but they made a VERY marketable cover/design for my book. They also just partnered with Key Marketing Group to help their authors...so it appears they are moving in the right direction.

as far as the editing goes...just be careful and have your friends/family proofread too. Perhaps it was just my editor, but I was not very happy initially. To their credit though, they did hear me out when I called them up to express my displeasure.

[dancingpsalmist]

jay8514, not all proofreaders are created equal. I constantly encounter errors, even places where the wrong person's name is in the text. That's why my ad is under "services for proofreading". I intend to hone my skills and be available to as many publishing houses as God wants me to work for.

[Reen]

How right you are. Proofreading is the hardest part of writing. My books are checked many times. I have three ladies who edit for me. They are not professionals, however. And when the book comes out there are mistakes even then. Reading out loud is a big help however if you do not have it professionally done. Do these 'self publishing' houses edit for you? I have to get mine to the printer, print ready. And that works very well for me. He has done 4 books for me and I will soon be ready to give him the 5th. Of course he doesn't sell them or anything else. He is the printer, and does a good job. At any rate this is the way I go and I very happy with it.
Reen

[DrRita]

i have signed with tate as well and my book will be coming out soon. It's been an okay experience. I sometimes wonder how the heck they miss some of the editing errors from the original copy.



That's YOUR job. Vanity publishers charge extra for that. :cool: