Vivid Dream

[BrotherDave]

Just wanted to tell EH Brown that the statement you made about the "vivid continuous dream" really caught my imagination!
I am currently working on a fictional novel, have been for a while. Thought I could finish it in a week. Months later I'm half way through the last chapter, I hope.

BUT it is a vivid continuous dream! Sometimes its a hard dream, cause I can't get through it fast enough, and I have so far to go to reach the climax. Sometimes its a wonderful dream, because I get so tickled at what my characters are doing. Sometimes I just want to throw up and hands and quit, because I don't want to deal with "the work" anymore, but I can't because I love the dream, its characters, and where its going, and where it eventually will end.

Do you think maybe God feels like this too? He is writing a novel, and we are the characters. His novel, however, has an extra twist. His characters are interactive and take part in the writing. I don't think God gets frustrated with the way his novel is playing out. He is a stronger author and I. But I think maybe he gets just as excited seeing where His "vivid continuous dream" is going and will end.

All I can say is, "Thank you my Lord, for writing me into your novel. I can't wait to see how it ends!"

BrotherDave

[howarddygo]

hi!
i'm new around here, but i thought posting a reply won't hurt anyone...
i personally feel that we are part of some cosmic soap opera; so, i thought i'd say something and add to what you've already said.
the main question i am concerned with is why do certain people die? is it because their "fan-base" has gone down? but, seriously, i think we all want to believe that a character in this great cosmic story passes on when they have played their part in the tale. this probably explains why some people are able to avoid death during great mishaps, their "fans" keep them alive (or, is it, the one, true Fan?), the Plan is not yet complete for that person.
that aside, i have another point in mind...we all play our roles in the story, with free will...but, their is always that thread between all events that seems to direct us toward something. i think it's a question of seeing the direction that the events seemed inclined towards. and this can be best done if we stop trying to see what we want to see, but what God wants us to see.
well, that's it for now; i hope this addition was worthwhile.

[BrotherDave]

Interesting reply. You are trying to "picture" life, and that
is good for the pen and the writer. "Cosmic Soap Opera?" Well,
maybe. But I think the author has the plot line layed out and
we make it "cosmic" or "comic" or "tragic" with our choices. Remeber the writing is interactive.
My son plays a lot of role playing video games. With his choices he manipulates where he goes, but the goal and the rewards for victory are set, and always the same. He can't change that. He can change how he gets there, or where he finishes, but not where the true finish line is.
Keep painting pictures with your pen. Life is one of the more popular plot lines.
BrotherDave

[howarddygo]

i agree with you. but, i've got a question: some rules are set before us, such that going against these rules eventually causes tragedy in one way or another; also, we are free to make our own choices, and the Love that we are given basically allows us this freedom, for all the woes and joys this may bring; lastly, there is an ultimate ending (or beginning, depending on how one sees how the story ends/goes), set by God, dependent on the choices one makes in life; so (here's the question), can we say that life is interactive in a similar sense that the role-playing games of your son are (exempting the love aspect) or that life is far more complex because the love aspect can cause wondrous results that can surprise one and all?
i hope you don't see this as a rhetorical question, because it isn't. i left the faith a long time ago and only recently returned (i suppose i was a "pagan" for those fifteen years)...and i still have some questions that trouble me. especially the aspect of an eternal hell...you could check out the article i submitted to this site for some details as to why i find an eternal hell painful...i keep hoping for a continuous, never-ending, and unconditional forgiveness because of my past errors (fifteen years for crying out loud...and i keep hoping for my 'pagan' and atheist friends to get an infinite number of chances to get it right).
(i realize that this borders on what the statement of faith that belongs to this site doesn't allow, but it's more a question than a stand.)
(the article i submitted is entitled, "on love, forgiveness, and thanking my mother".)

[BrotherDave]

A great thing about the Christian God, is that He allows us to struggle until our last day. Stuggle in, struggle out, struggle back in and out again, but He doesn't hold it against us while we are out. He is always working to bring us back in. His forgiveness is always continuous and never ending, otherwise H would just fry us on the spot and be done with us. "Oops, saving that guy was mistake! PZZZAP! NEXT!"
It's called "Grace." I've come to see grace as a circle of light, with God in the middle, and us given the room in the light to live on the edge or run into His arms in the middle. The middle, in his arms, is His perfect will. We can even choose to walk out into the darkness. But His grace never gets smaller and never moves away. It's always there for us to run to.
Does this give us the freedom to run back into the darkness. Frankly, yes. But if we stop to truely enjoy His light, we will not want to go back out in the dark, but attack it, and tear down the gates of Hell.

What happens if we are "out" on our last day. Well, that's a fear we have to live with. "Will God find faith on the earth?" There is wonderful love in His grace, but, alas, also fear. Not fear that we will walk out and remain an outcast, but fear we will dissapoint the one who loves us so much. Oh, how I long to hear Him say on the last day, "Well done, good and faithful servant. Enter into your rest." There is more here, but I think this all the preaching I'm allowed.

I am going to read your story. I'll get back to you after that.

BrotherDave

[howarddygo]

all the preaching you are allowed? by all means, please continue, they have been most helpful.

but, i still must ask, don't we get a second chance if we screw things up? life is too short, sometimes, and we don't get to know just how much love we are really given. the "fear" that you mentioned chills me to the bone...in fact, it was the idea of hell that kept me from going back to Christianity for so long. i didn't like the idea of certain people not getting into Heaven and being kept in Hell for all time because of mistakes and blindness in their life. i'm reminded of Screwtape, from the work of C.S. Lewis, who could see the light of God but found it too blinding for his taste. Even the devil gets the chance to return, but are too scared, too doubtful...

i remember a passage in the Gospels that speak of the "unpardonable sin"...to doubt the Holy Spirit...i used to think i was beyond hope...until i believed that as long as we doubt the power of Grace and Love and Forgiveness, we cannot be truly forgiven because we damn ourselves by thinking ourselves unloved and ungraced(?). Don't we keep getting a chance to accept and believe in the Love...even in Hell?

thanks so much for your response so far. they have been most helpful. i hope you don't mind continuing this discussion.

take care and God bless.

[BrotherDave]

Tough subject. And scary too. The Bible tells us that you die once, and then stand in judgement. A man has all his years, to the last second to reconcile with his God, and I believe God uses every second of that time to woo and exercise his kindness to bring a man to repentance. How it works in Hell, I don't know, but I wouldn't count on waiting till then to get right.
As far as in this life, I'm a once saved, always save, fanatic. I believe that the cross of Christ of good enough to wipe away any sin. How God deals with the backslider at the day of judgement is His business. I just don't want to be in that position to find out if my shakey theology is correct, and then have to beg for forgiveness.
Also in this life, I weep for those who have tasted His goodness, then gone back to consuming wordly garbage. I have family that are living that way and I'm doing everything I can to win them. And the best thing I've found to do for them is for me to live as close to Jesus as possible.
BrotherDave

[howarddygo]

thank you. i think you answered my question to the point that i can drop it from the list of "thoughts that plague me".

and, you're right, all we can do is try to show them what the life of someone who tries to be as Christlike as possible is like. preaching doesn't really work. the lived faith is far better in terms of converting others.

again, thank you. and God bless you.

[ladypreacher]

Hey there. You guys are talking about a post I've not had the opportunity to read as I was on a mini-vacation. I'll check it out tomorrow if I get a chance, if not the next day...

The reason I'm posting is your dialog (SP?) has been touching and it has given me cause to consider and to be thankful.

God's grace is unsearchable and his love infinate. Maybe the story that we truly are interacting in is The Lamb's Book of Life. Just a thought...

[E. H. Brown]

I saw your posting, and thought I'd follow up with my 'take' on the vivid dream. BrotherDave, I'm glad it helped spark your imagination, though the statement certainly is not my own creation. I've really enjoyed reading everyone's ideas on quote, and found the postings very thought provoking and well written. They got me to thinking in ways I had not considered before, and I always find that a good thing.

I first ran across the phrase in college fiction classes (and since, in several other writing books), but I could only quickly find the quote in 'The Complete Guide To Writing & Selling the Christian Novel' by Penelope J. Stokes.

The phrase is used throughout the book, but the first mention I could find was on page 55, the beginning of Chapter 4. I will quote from the fourth paragraph on the page:
"John Gardner, one of the finest writing teachers of this century and a Christian committed to spiritual integrity in his writing, in 'On Becoming a Novelist' described fiction as 'a vivid, continuous dream' that sweeps readers into the author's world and keeps them firmly entrenched there until the last sentence of the book. Samuel Taylor Coleridge described this vivid, continuous dream as the 'willing suspension of disbelief'."

I use the phrase as I write to keep me mindful of my goal- to get the reader so completely caught up in my story that they forget it is fiction. I know I'm reading a great book when I become lost in the writer's created world. I find myself carried along the course of the characters lives, and caring about what happens and why. But for me, it only works if I've believed in the story to the point of 'willingly suspending my belief' that the book is fiction.

We all have our favorite authors and books where this 'vivid continuous dream' is carried through all the way to the end. If anyone is interested, they can see a partial listing of such books from me and other fellow ChristianWriter.com members under the posting of:
********'Writers Who Have Inspired Us'

The 'vivid, continuous dream' is what I strive for every time I sit down to the computer. My writing may not always reflect the idea, but the idea provides a helpful mental focal point as I create and complete my fictional world.

E. H. Brown