The Idea

[baoetken]

I have been working on coming up with an idea for my first novel and I am wondering what you all do to solidify in your own mind your ideas. Do you talk to others or just mill it around in your own mind? Once you have the general idea how do you add 'meat' to it to the point of being able to write more than a few pages?

Thanks for your replies.

[GentleJourneyAu]

I first try to clarify in my mind what my point is, what I want the reader to gain from the story. Then I do a lot of character analyzing, filling out a set of questions that I have in order to flesh out the characters. Since I write historical novels, I will then begin researching the time and place, manners and morals etc., and the research usually sets me off thinking of situations to put the characters in while the character analysis suggests how they will act and react in such situations. Then I "incubate" it all and ideas start popping out all over the place faster than I can write them down. Usually I have an idea of the ending and the hook and I just start writing from the beginning and the darn thing writes itself. Then I put it away for awhile and more ideas present themselves, and it's time for rewrite. The main thing is don't think you need to know what you are going to write before you start. You will find yourself realizing new things as you are physically writing. You can always rewrite.

[DrRita]

Hi baoetken

Here's an article in the archives that might help Outlining My Novel (http://christianwriters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7774)

[Tarin]

My process is pretty similar to GentleJourney's. Usually I have so many stories running around in my head that I'm able to let them germinate for quite awhile before actually starting the process of putting it down on paper.

I have had very good success with filling a notebook with what I call "sketches." They help me solidify the premise and discover plot holes before I create an outline. And, yes, I do use an outline. If I don't know where I'm going in a story, I usually end up with a sloppy mess on my hands. :eek:

Next step is to run off character sketches for three or four of the primary characters. Over the years, I've created an extensive "character interview" with about 70 questions to help me get to know my characters on a very intimate basis.

Then, once I've got a pretty good idea where the story is going, I'll dive into research. I'll usually spend a month or two on the initial research, though it's definitely an ongoing process throughout the novel.

Then, finally, (*gulp*) I'll dive into the actual writing. Exhilerating as that moment is, it's also terrifying. It usually takes me almost fifty pages to truly get into the rhythm of a story and become comfortable with the flow of words and where I want them to take me.

[David Meigs]

I 2nd Doc’s recommendation of the article on outlining (http://christianwriters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7774).

As for me, I chew a story over in the back of my mind until it takes shape. Then I scribble out a skeleton timeline of events and then sit back and chew on it some more. When the basic outline of events is set, I start the book. Before I write the scene, I play it out in my mind, letting it become real to me. Then all there is to do is sit back and record the vivid movie playing in my mind.

[Phy]

I have been working on coming up with an idea for my first novel and I am wondering what you all do to solidify in your own mind your ideas. Do you talk to others or just mill it around in your own mind? Once you have the general idea how do you add 'meat' to it to the point of being able to write more than a few pages?

Thanks for your replies.

Generating the ideas is rarely the problem for me. Instead, it's paring the ideas down to a manageable happy medium.

It's a process.

First, I pray. (This may seem like either a completely obvious or completely ridiculous step, but it's like the concept of the firstfruits; I want to give my best and brightest to God, and beg him to inform my choices and to bless them for His use.)

Then I start with a single nugget of an idea and start expanding. I'll write it out first in a Notepad file of a bazillion other ideas. If it makes it to the next step, I'll give it a Notepad file of its own and throw other ideas in as they arrive. Finally, if they achieve critical mass, I may create an Excel spreadsheet with characters, character arcs, plot points and timing, and so forth. Another package that I've just started playing with is SuperNoteCard (http://www.mindola.com/), an app that supports both Windows and Mac, and which my fellow writer Paul Christian Glenn has used for his current serial novel, the Jasper Squad.

I also have very close friends I throw ideas past, and crit groups when I'm taking an idea into larger circulation.

Finally, I float the idea past my wife, who doesn't read and has little interest in many of the things that I have a keen interest in. If she thinks it's boring or derivative, it probably is. If even she is interested, it's probably worth pursuing.

[whitehawke]

I'm trying to break my dive-in style, but I seem to need to start writing before the ideas have completely opened to me. I'm bit of a bull charging the gate.

A story will build inside me and I start living and dreaming it. I get an idea of the characters and I search for photos that somehow fit. I usually only write a very brief plot and outline before I can't help myself and I have to dive into the writing. Then as I go, new ideas come and I build more of the outline.

It takes me some time to really get to know my characters, maybe 50, 60 or 100 pages. I have to remember to make notes as new details come to me.

I don't know why it is, but if I don't start writing when the burning desire hits me, the story somehow seems to lose me. I can know all the scenes, can picture them all in my head and know everything that is going to happen in the book, but if I've not started writing while it's threatening to explode out of me, I just lose all driving force and the story dies.

A dear friend has been showing me how to plot and outline and I'm learning a better balance. At the moment, I am rewriting my first novel that was a flop because I didn't know how to plot and outline. I'm still learning.

[baoetken]

Thanks for your responses, they are quite helpful.

[ProfessorAlan]

I need to come up with characters shortly after getting the "idea" -- to me, that is the first step in the conversoin of "idea" to "story."

[jacks girl]

I have been working on coming up with an idea for my first novel.

Give me a little background here please. Have you written all your life, did you wake up one day and say Hey I think I'll write a novel. You say this is your first novel and I'm very curious... I love to know what makes people tick.


what you all do to solidify in your own mind your ideas.
I usually do this my jumping in with both ink pen and M. Word. I start writing the moment an idea hits me. I go with the flow as it comes. I may write a few chapters to find out this isn't going anywhere. Or have to realize I'm in the middle of the story here and have to write some lead ins and backgrounds.


Do you talk to others or just mill it around in your own mind?

Now that I have the CW family I might talk to someone, but before that I hardly ever mentioned my ideas to anyone. Because I don't have anyone that writes in my family. so most of the time I mill it around in my own mind but not for long before i start to put it on paper, even if it's just taking notes.

Once you have the general idea how do you add 'meat' to it to the point of being able to write more than a few pages?

most of the time thankfully i get a story idea that has most of what it needs but an ending. I go with the flow and may add things as my characters work out on paper. I do an outline now to help me with the ending, i've learned a lot since i came to CW and it is a big help to me and I'm sure it will be for you too.

[DraperJC]

A story doesn't really take solid form to me until I have these things:

The Hero
The Maguffin
The Antagonistic Force

Once I have these, the rest is all give and take between the hero and the antagonistic force.

[Lookin^Up]

For Christian writers, one more element is needed: prayer. Ask the Lord to give you the ideas while you outline, jot notes, or do whatever else has been suggested. I find that extemporaneous writing can be very helpful in hashing out ideas. It looks like garbage when it's finished, but hey ... it's only a step toward the finished, polished product.

[paulchernoch]

1) Idea - I started my novel with an idea: people define justice and build supporting bureacracies to suit themselves and escape God's justice, but the systems they create get them in the end.

2) Setting - This immediately suggested a place: an afterlife with competing court systems representing different religions and philosophies, with God's system hidden from view but secretly transcendent.

3) Character Goals - This led me quickly to the twin goals: the initial goal of escaping ultimate justice, and the superior goal of accepting both justice and forgiveness. That settled for me that it would be a fugitive story.

Then over a decade went by. I finally decided to run with the story and set about trying to outline it.

I had to tackle the problem on several fronts, since all the pieces were interrelated.

4) World building. I thought up some of the institutions of the court system, some of the physical laws, types of supernatural happenings, etc. Most crucial: I designed the key obstacles keeping the hero from returning to life, comminucating with the living, or escaping the city into other regions of the afterlife.

5) Themes - I struggled with what the main themes should be. (By the end of the writing, this changed significantly. Don't force theme too hard early on. The best themes flow from the story and characters, but you need to start somewhere!) Some of these themes fed back into the world design. One theme was the importance of proper mourning for spiritual growth - so I created the House of Mourning.

5) I designed characters to fill the roles.

6) I worked on the spiritual progression from unbelief to faith that the hero would have to follow, and created backstory to explain what in his past was keeping him from growing and forcing him to run.

7) The themes, obstacles and basic character of the hero then fed into the first take at a plot.

8) My initial villain was the system itself. It was only well into the writing that I discovered the need for a personal villain. Most people aren't so obtuse - it is writing 101. But I am glad - because it forced me to create a more vibrant world with a menace of its own. Once I worked the villain into things, it gave the hero several things to battle against, creating a richer story. I also set the good guys (angels and OT prophets) against the hero as well (for his own good!)

9) Sprinkled through all this was research - loads of it: International and American criminal procedure, novels, short stories and poems about heaven and hell (Dante, Lewis, and others), prison slang, etc.

10) Layering. As I wrote, I realized the need for new characters, or new connections between the ones I already had. I would conceive their role, figure where in the story they would intesect the main character, and write them into the story one at a time. It was in building up some of these characters that the secondary conflicts arose.

I did a lot of other things to plan. Drew maps, timelines, etc. But once the world started to come to mind and I began to write, I just imagined what it would like to be there, what would confuse me, how I might react, what I would want to try that would fail and why, and the story came out.

Fortunately, the type of story I am writing is universal and has a rhythm to it (though I didn't realize that when I started). Fugitive stories (especially prison breaks or escapes from tyrrany) start with the character trying to learn the ropes and go along. Once they get oriented, they plan their research and exploration. When they have the materials and information they need, they plan their escape, execute it, it goes wrong and they improvise, and finally succeed or fail. Along the way they encounter betrayals and other setbacks. Once you know what kind of story you are writing (and subplots may be entirely different kinds of stories) the structure should flow naturally. To me it felt like magic, until my intuitive sense was backed up by my reading about literary theory and writing technique.

- Paul

[Phy]

I want to read Paul's book.

Now 1300 words into Chapter 12 of The Sky Pirate serial novel.

[Tarin]

(By the end of the writing, this changed significantly. Don't force theme too hard early on. The best themes flow from the story and characters, but you need to start somewhere!)

This is soooo true!

[paulchernoch]

I want to read Paul's book.

So do I. That would mean it was done and I could get a rest.

Between last night and today (to bed at 10:30, up before 5 am) I wrote 2969 words. I see a chapter split coming on.

I made it through info dump one for the chapter. I went back and wove in a little suspense into the mix. Have to go back and add more later. At last, at twenty pages into chapter 17, I got to the point where the hero is running around trying to catch a spy who snuck away from a government inspection team. I'm thinking I will have to trim, trim, trim. Way too long to get to the action, but I'm having fun.

- Paul

[Phy]

All this creativity is good for my writing. I got in 2818 words toward Chapter 12 of The Sky Pirate, and introduced my favorite character, the mercenary Bola.

She's modeled a bit after Gabriella Reece (only taller) and has this charming tendency to miss the blindingly obvious.

(In which Flynn has stopped into an establishment for some refreshment only to be confronted by his mortal enemy and five thugs. Flynn is about to succumb to the odds when an unexpected visitor changes the balance of power.)

There was a commotion at the door. All eyes turned and lit on the largest woman anybody had seen in those parts. She stood 6’-4” if she was an inch, dishwater blonde hair tied into a knot behind her neck. She stood with her feet wide and her arms crossed over her chest, defying their gaze.

Flynn leaned to his left so he could see her around Baskins. “Excuse me–we’re sort of having a scene here. Maybe you could take your thirst somewhere safer.” He returned to his position and opened his mouth to retort to Baskins.

The amazon spoke first. “Safety and me don’t get along,” she said from the doorway. “Wherever I go is dangerous.”

Flynn looked at his foe and held up his index finger. “One moment, please.” He leaned to his left again. “What’s your name, Miss?”

“I’m Bola, and I’m nobody’s ‘Miss’.”

“Bola, what?”

“What?”

Flynn looked at Baskins, and then back at her. Flynn was more careful this time. “What is your last name, Bola?”

“Don’t have one. Don’t need one.”

Flynn said, “Ah. Well, Bola No-Last-Name, maybe you can take your danger somewhere else, then. We pirates are in the middle of a private discussion, here.”

Flynn returned to his posture in front of Baskins and raised his finger to speak.

Bola strode forward, placed her right hand on Baskins' left shoulder, and effortlessly tossed him to his right, throwing him clean across one table to crumple into a heap at the base of another.

If things were quiet in the tavern before, they ground to a full stop now...

I've been waiting to write about this first meeting since December of 2004. I didn't know what I was going to do with it, I just knew I had to introduce my favorite mercenary at some point in time, in some fashion. Now that I've finally gotten here, it was more fun than I thought it would be.

[Tarin]

What fun!!thumbsup!

[righter1]

Usually, my initial idea comes in the form of a scene. Typically, this is the first scene (or nearly the first scene) in the book. Sometimes, it's the climax, but not usually.

Then, I start figuring out who my protagonist(s) will be, and their support staff, if you will. I usually find out who my antagonist is only after I've begun writing.

I usually mill all this stuff around in my mind for a while, unless it's interfering with another project, and then I write down the idea with as many details as possible. If it's still with me, I'll start by writing the initial scene just to give my brain a rest.

I usually end up adding most of the meat to my story after I have a rough draft. That is definitely what's happening with my current project, which is the most in depth novel I've written, and the first one I intend to get published, and actually feel good about.

My biggest problem is having more ideas while I'm working on projects. I have been working on my current project for approximately 15 months, and in that length of time, I've come up with (counts on fingers) 5 ideas that have had to have at a minimum a scene or two written down (4 of them have more than 80 pages worth of story already down!) and then I also clip news articles, and have a few other one-liner ideas (one came from the Shakespeare quote, 'first, we must kill all the lawyers'--hey, I'm a mystery writer, what do you expect?) :)

Good topic.